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OK, it's a little embarrassing posting this but I think it might be necessary.
Anyway, our local 'Nid player has gotten a little out of hand. He's on quite a winning streak, and our other local players are losing interest because the list seems unbeatable. I know this is not the case, but after trying to help my buddies and giving it a few tries myself the game simply is not fun at this point and the hobby is stagnating rather quickly.
I would like some help crafting an army to trounce our local 'Nid. I figure this is the place to come to get some advice from the 'other' side of the table if you know what I mean. And this isn't about winning so much as it is about levelling our playing field by stirring things up and bringing back some friendly competition. At the moment the insane amount of wins (and the ease at which he sometimes achieves them) is creating alot of bitterness between my friends that I'm very unhappy to see develop.
His usual 1k list or so (we usually limit it to small games so we can fit in several in a night) consists of a kitted Tyrant usually with wings and alot of shooting (he fires 12 times with rerolls to hit and wound), the broodlord with a retinue of 7 or so, another unit of genestealers of about 7-8, usually two zoanthropes with warp blasts and 2-3 squads of 10-12 models of smaller guants (I believe usually the assault kind) and I believe a carnifex that is usually kitted to shoot as well. Does that sound about right? I can't remember if I'm recalling a 1k or 1.5k list. Anyway, that should give you the general idea.
Anyway, the lists I have at my disposal to try and create something to strike back with are Blood Angels, the Imperial Guard, Ultramarines and Chaos Marines. I also have a limited amount of Tau and Eldar (these aren't all my armies, but the ones which I can help craft the army).
So, I understand if you don't want to give away any secret t3ch you feel you have but I would appreciate some help to try and save my playgroup!
From my experiences against my opponents:
For the SMs: try lots of assault cannons, heavy bolters - both have a chance to damage the big bugs and are lethal against everything else. You could try a Librarian with a Force Sword for that instant kill vs the tyrant and broodlord; support him with a large cc squad including several powerfists. The carnifex will have long-range weapons but is an indifferent marksman so ignore it as much as possible, and the zoanthropes have a relatively short range that missile launchers and lascannons outclass. 'Stealers are lethal in hand-to-hand, so shoot them. Large blast templates can be great vs the troop broods too. The heavier tanks can be hard for Nids to deal with, as long as you keep them moving over 6" and more than 18" away from the zoanthropes.
Guard: using doctrines (I think) my local opponent manages in 1500 points something like 15 lascannons and 9 heavy bolters, and there is sometimes a chimera in this as well. I've yet to work out how to crack this one, particularly if he sets up away from cover and with healthy lines of fire.
You're going to need some lascannons. Use tank ordanince weapons on the genestealers, from a russ or basilisk, to take out genestealers and the brood lord. With a couple well placed pie plates all of these things will be gone. Depending on the save he has given the carni and tyrant, I would suggest lascannons. Hit the tyrant first with every lascannon or ap 3 troops weapon you have and you may even be able to take it out first turn if you have enough heavies. Then move on to the carnifex or thorpes, depending on whether the carnifex has a venom cannon or lighter guns. Probably go for the thorpes first so that your tanks can kill the troops. Keep the tanks hidden from the thorpes and fex and just bombard the troops. Be ready to lose some troops but just take out the main stuff first and you should be able to win.
Originally Posted by The Paint Monkey
i play 'nids and my friend plays which hunters half the time and with 3flamers, 5 heavy bolters, and 3 heavy flamers along with 2 exocists in the 1st couple turns i get hit pretty bad. i'd advise with your marines to get a devastater sqaud with 4 heavybolters, and 3-4 tatical sqauds with heavybolters and mybe a plasma gun or 2. plasma cannons and lascannons work well against the hive tyrant and fex. a pred with heavy bolters and auto cannon will work well. hes farthest range is 36" with the venom and barb so keep your distance with lascannons. get a landspeeder sqaud with heavy bolters and assaultcannon, that will slaughter genestealers. u may want a dread or assault sqaud to deepstrike up by the fex since its shooty it won't come up to close and the assault squad will want a powerfist. Good Luck.
Hrm, do you really think *that* many HBs are needed? I'd be concerned that I wouldn't have enough MLs to deal with the Tyrant (who can only be a 3+ save if he has wings right?).
You need two things.... AP4 Weapons and AP2 Weapons. Large blast AP4 weapons will take out any and all large broods, Now this might sound strange but Close combat is the best way to deal with Tyranid Montrous Creatures esp a force weapon. A squad of 10 should have no problem in removing the tyrant, and even less trouble removing the carnifex.Originally Posted by Darguth
Also concentrate his broods first genestealers are the creatures that do the most damage followed by the Hive tyrant (who can have a 2+/6+I save when flying) then the gaunts then the zoans and carni.
We struggle to take out tanks so some preds with 3 lascannons kept at range will rape our MC's
for the rest of the swarm use blast markers and ap4 weapons, Necrons are particularly devastating at this.
The list is similar to mine and i enjoy a large amount of success as well but i know these things trouble me. Taking out the genestealers against marines goes along way to winning you the battle.
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he only gets the 2+/6+ save when he takes warp field other wise it's only a 3+.Hive tyrant (who can have a 2+/6+I save when flying)they will take out the genestealers very fast, but u don't really need the tatical sqauds with them so they can get some LCs or PCs for those bigger beasts. HBs can help with taking out gaunts fast to.Hrm, do you really think *that* many HBs are needed?
Last edited by Shriker; August 4th, 2006 at 03:11.
hive fleet of tyranids-2000pts
bad moonz orks-1500ptz
Orcs clan Red 'Eads-1000pts
Marines should grab a crusader. tough to bust, and anything that come with in 24 inches is met by a literal hail of fire. assault cannon is nice. str6 means your wounding most thing on a 2+ and tyranys on a 4+. ap 4 kills anthing from gaunts to warriors with ease, as will HBs. and as always high rate of fire is a no brainer. hurricane bolters will fire enough shots to hurt just about anything thats not a fex or tyrant bad. devastators with Hbs routinley make their points back, and HB/autocannon preds are a nice in between, for lesss points.
BA may have a tough time, but the single best tank to take on the nids is the baal pred in my opinion. TW assault cannons, and 2 HBs, for less than a normal pred? what a deal!
chaos have preds and raiders like other marines, but with no crusader, it probably isnt worth it. alot of marines with bolters and plasma is good, and nurgle means that gaunts will be no more than a pinning tool.
gaurd may be your best bet. loys of shots, brislting with heavy weapons, namely HBs, maybe some lascannons. gaunts are T3, with a 6+ save, which lasguns will be doing something noticable, sorta. demolitiers and russes are wonderful. and next to the ball pred, nothing makes me shake like seeing some hellhounds.
1 final note: flamers working well agaisnt nids is an old wives tale. most nids will out manuver with fleet, leaping or wings, meaning they are never in perfect range for the flamers maximum effect. how ever, it is quite the opposite for hellhounds, and drop podding dreads.
ill disagree with that. 1 squad of my marines proxiod a flamer and burn threw quite a few gaunts while they came up threw the woods. thoe i got assaulted the next turn i held them off until my assault squad came for back-up.flamers working well agaisnt nids is an old wives tale.
hive fleet of tyranids-2000pts
bad moonz orks-1500ptz
Orcs clan Red 'Eads-1000pts