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Okay, so I finally converted a buddy of mine away from just Fantasy warhammer lol. And he has deicated himself ot beating my near unbeatable lil' brothers Ork Army. he plays the Orks right IMO, 6 Squads of Boyz, 2 Squads of 'Ard Boyz, Tricked out Warboss and Retinue with A nob per mob. And he likes the Nids. He is a horde player who loves the idea of swarmign the lines and gobbling up everyone in his way lol. Now, he wants a viable army for 500-2000 Point games, or at least as much as he can get for $200.00-$250.00 bucks. I've been an avid 40k player for nigh on a decade, so I've seen some action against the 'nids. And after doing some research i've come up with a couple of suggestions for him, that I am humble enough to run by some real 'nid experience before selling him on.
Option 1: The Ease) 3 Tyranid Battleforce boxes. This would give him-
I figure this is a very good starting point, and with the three Fex's and 9 Warriors it makes up for the lack of swarmy goodness with Igh toughness, high threat models and he can fill all troop prerequistes with this load out. Drawback? No Hive Tyrant. But I think 3 Fex's handle the role well enough.
Option 2: The Horde: 1 Tyranind Battleforce box. 1 Hive Tyrant Box, 3 Gaunt Boxes. Gives him-
1 Hive Tyrant
This gives him only 16 more 'gaunts and loses out on the discoutned Warriors nad fex squads. I don't liek this one much, feel like it'd die too easy. But eh.
The Swarm-Tyranid Battleforce.6 gaunt Boxes. This gives him-
Again, this doesn't seem liek for the money he would pay and work he'd do painting that it would work out that well in enjoyment and payoff. But I don't know for sure.
Those are the Choices I have made up for himt o look over. anyone have any input of critique, or honetly I am looking for a good Yes vs. No Ratio tot he choices here.
(P.S: These all fall at abouuthe $250.00 price mark due to discounts at the store I buy from.)
Personally I'd go with the first one. It's a great alround list. I'd split each of the squads into two groups i.e. 2 squds of 12 stealers etc. This would fill all Troop choices which IMO is key for Nids; present the enemy with too many targets, especially since your little brothers army consists of numerous squads. The Warrriors should provide adequat synape. Either split them up into two or three suqds to maximise synapse coverage.
The three fex's will devastate a horde ork army. I'd make atleast one a devil fex (2X twin-linked dev, enhanced sense). The other one/two (depending on how many devil fex's he maes) should have a bardstrangler, enhanced sense and either a VC or TL dev. If he doesn't want to worry about armour at all then give it a TL dev. Spitting out a pie plate and a large amount of high strength (against orks) shots with a decent enough ap will rip through ork squads. I recommended devil fex's just because they're cheaper on points but if he wants give them all barbstranglers. The more the merrier.
Out of the next two I'm leaning towards the middle one, just because of the Tyrant. Give it wings, ES, 2 TL devs, TS and any other upgrade you fancy and see some ork squads fall.
The last list just has too many gaunts for the small amount of synapse. They wouldn't last long in combat with the large amount of ork attacks and a poor leadership.
Well I hope it helps you and your friend. Happy Hunting.
I would suggest a Hive tyrant box with two battle forces, Against orks Barbed stranglers are evil and The Hive tyrant gives you same very durable synpase. Against orks you can afford to sit back and shoot as the Tyranids weapons are almost purpose build for taking them out hi Str and hi AP.
And of course once they get close enough you should always to able to get the charge in to destroy what little remains.
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I agree with carnifexus, 2 battleforces and then a seperate tyrant with a tyrant guard or such is the best buy.
With some many gaunts on the field, synapse is critical for him and warriors don't surive for long when faced with massed heavy bolters and such.
Completely agree 2 battleforces is enough, get a tyrant and guards and he is ready to mass murder orks :p
2 bf hive tyrant (some wings!! :w00t: ) and just a suggestion for later or w/e but.. raveners :shifty:
Yesterday I was debating on the question of... could raveners kill a seer council (3 rav) 7 in council. One of the gw store workers said the raveners would get butchered, but we showed him ehh!! :shifty: The raveners cut down the seer council 1 ravener remained, total the points and i think that was pretty effective
Hmm IMO go for the 3 BF and later on get a HT ASAP as the BF are really good buys and if you can get them in mass go for it. Plus a HT is almost always needed in a tyranid army (unless of course you purposly don't want one for a theme and such). With 2 TL dev he could put a world of hurt on those orks and still assault them if he wanted too and with wings he can go anywhere almost.
Is it me or does any other necron player get annoyed when they see people saying "Necrons eat souls". How is that even possible as souls are part of the warp and necrons want nothing to do with it? Eh probaly me just me being picky.
Tyranid Hivemind Member
Well I suppose now I can add more info-
He wants to beat the orks and everyone else in CC. He's not about Nids for the big guys to sit back and shoot. Also, unless the Tyrant box comes with wings, it doesn't fall anywhere near being financially cheap enough to fit in with the budget of the army, which is the biggest handicap. PErsonally I would figure if he goes with number 1 (WHich Im prettys ure he is), then the 9 Warriors and 3 Fex's are gonna be WAY good enough Synapse coverage. And as far as the 'Fexs go..he wants them for CC monsters and not Shooty batteries. WHich I applaud lol. But Ir emember fighting Screamer-Killers in second edition and what not. Anyway, good advice. I believe he is taking the first option of 3 BF. Now, short of a Hive Tyrant, which I don't figure him needing too badly with his already massive Synapse coverage, what is the best bet for his next squad? Lictors or Raveners?
His synapse coverage is appauling not good or even close to good its really bad. Your only unit which has synapse is the Warriors (Carnifeces don't) therefore at most you can have 18 t4 av4 wounds. knock out that and you lose all your synapse which makes everything but the Genestealers take a leadership test to move.
2nd Close Combat carni's are cool don't get me wrong but against orks expect to get murdered. Shooting carnis are good against all armies and are far more points effective.
If you want a good Hand to Hand nid list understand this, Yes Nid's have a lot of units that are good at hand to hand but theres still a hierachy.
Gaunts are not much better than your standard IG in HtH and cost about the same as IG.
Hormagaunts are great against Tau and IG and Orks if they get the charge but there only 10 points don't expect much against MEQ assault squads or shooting squads. THey'll take down a few but generally won't earn there points back.
Genestealers these cost a bit but are probably the most cost effective HtH troops in the game opponents fear them with a reason they annihilate in CC add a broodlord to the mix and even a terminator assault squad will shoot pistols rather than charge in.
The basic gyst of this is. Tyranids are the HtH combat masters but you can't expect 5 pt gaunts to the HtH masters of Terminators who cost 8x the points cost. This is a strategy game and while you might want to play your army all HtH and Close combat understand that a lack of tactics and inflexibilty will invitably lead you to defeat.
In Movies now a days hand to hand combat is glorified while shooting guns is for the weak. But in any real war shooting is the only real option. While 40k is by no means a real war to treat it like a movie instead of a strategy game is a style I wouldn't suggest. I'm not saying don't play HtH its what the bulk of the Nid's are good at but don't ignore our shooting often taking out a key tank or instant killing a 200pt necron lord can help turn the tide and allows your units to reach close combat. it also adds another dimension for your opponents to play against.
By all means take a Close combat Carnifex but I would also recommend a couple of the shooting variety. Its not unfluffy I think of the Nid weapons as perfectly integrated into thier theme.
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Ah well, personally I agree with many of those points lol. I myself would give two of my Fex's Venom Cannons or Barbed Stranglers or a mix. AND correct me if i am wrong, but a T7 2+ Save Screamer Killer Carnifex would most likely shred a unit of orks faster than a Blood Angel's dread on steroids, since they are STR 3 I would assume the Fex' could chomp away. And I agree with alot of your points, though I find playing a game of 40k as if it were actually a War maybe a bit grandiouise as the 6 turn average limits doesn't allow for alot of "war". The abttleplan I gave him to think on was to use the Gaunts to tie up the first lines, therefore stopping the shooting and hold until the carnifex gets int here and goes to work on them. Now on the Synapse thing I do thank you, suppose I am remembering old 'Nids where Carnifex's were synapse creatures. Now its just what? Tyrant, Warriors, Zoanthropes? That seems almost crippling. Anyway, I shall let him know that he should try to get a Tyrant ASAP. I intnd to show him how to putty-stick, pin or magnetize the Carnifex's arms so he can do as he will with them, chang eit up and what not. And interesting thing I just learned. Did you know that the Tyranid Warriors are not killed instantly by weapons double their toughness but ARE instant killed by weapons MORE than double their toughness.Hello LAscannon and Rail gun lol.