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Thread: Ork warbikes

  1. #1
    Senior Member Necrontyr's Avatar
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    Ork warbikes

    more rules questions from me

    about ork warbikes this time;
    they have a special attack in the first round of combat, it strikes first and works like a shooting attack.

    now, lets say the warbikes charge my wyches and i decide to use drugs and go for the always strikes first effect, who strikes first? the ork's special attack that strikes first, or my regular attacks that always strikes first, regardless of weapons or cover?

    also, do i get my 4+ dodge save?

    this scenario became reality yesterday when i played against my ork friend. we agreed that he would get to attack first. but really, i'm not so sure that should be the case. i did get my 4+ save though.
    i've looked in the ork faq and i can't find any information about this. help me out please.

    "I have seen you humans, trying to forge an Empire in the name of a corpse"

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    Son of LO Tenozuma's Avatar
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    This should probably be in the rules questions forum.

    I am really not sure, I'd say role a d6 and find out, thats what we usually do when we come across 2 contradicting abilities. As for whether you get your dodge save, I'm sorry to say, I don't know this either, we've been wanting this to be in an FAQ for some time now, whether we get a dodge save against stuff like mandiblasters or laser lances... You could say since your in combat that you do but since its a shooting attack that means you don't... so I don't know... sorry I couldn't be of any further use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
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    Tenozuma - The Burninator... I came, I saw, I posted.
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    Member JackalLegion's Avatar
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    Hey guys, I play orks and Dark eldar, and these rules are pretty similar to a degree. For the Dark Eldar Drugs, the codex says regardless of cover, WS or other factors. However, the ork codex says that they strike first on the charge regardless of all other factors. With rules like these, put them into physical context. Their extra attack, is a shooting attack they make before they even hit your men. That means that unless the wyches can leap thirty or so feet straight forward, the orks will hit you with their attack first. So for me, I am going to have to go with the Orks hitting first on this one. Hope this helps!

    -JL

  5. #4
    Son of LO Tenozuma's Avatar
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    But we all know that GW commonly abandons common sense for their rules, its unclear so I say either roll a d6 or strike simultaneously. By the letter of the law, they both strike first, so what do you do when 2 abilities contradict eachother? Roll off.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
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  6. #5
    Orks_n_Bugs Bugs_n_Orks's Avatar
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    I seem to remeber a similar issue with wyches fighting howling banshees. In the old eldar codex it said in this case the attacks are resolved simultaneously. It seems like the same thing in this case.

    As to the dodge save I'd say that you do get your save as the attack is made in CC, but thats just a first impression I'd have to re-read the specific rule for psyco-blastas and wyche dodges to make a definitive call on that one.

    And for those who think the warbikes should go first because they shoot from 30 or so feet while hurtling in, your thinking too logically for rules interpretation. Why is it that wyches can dodge attacks from eldar harlequins (who are equally as agile) but are left helpless against a necron with a warscythe?(who is definitely not more agile than a wyche) It doesn't make sense but thats how the rules are.
    Last edited by Bugs_n_Orks; November 6th, 2006 at 02:49.
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    Son of LO Tenozuma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bugs_n_Orks View Post
    I seem to remeber a similar issue with wyches fighting howling banshees. In either the 2nd edition codex or the FAQ it said that in this case roll a D6 to see who goes first. I'd say the same thing for wyche vs. warbikes or even banshees vs. warbikes.

    As to the dodge save I'd say that you do get your save as the attack is made in CC, but thats just a first impression I'd have to re-read the specific rule for psyco-blastas and wyche dodges to make a definitive call on that one.

    And for those who think the warbikes should go first because they shoot from 30 or so feet while hurtling in, your thinking too logically for rules interpretation. Why is it that wyches can dodge attacks from eldar harlequins (who are equally as agile) but are left helpless against a necron with a warscythe?(who is definitely not more agile than a wyche) It doesn't make sense but thats how the rules are.
    But Banshees don't always strike first, the masks just make them I10 (and other stuff now)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
    Teno, you are so godlike I almost creamed my pants!
    Tenozuma - The Burninator... I came, I saw, I posted.
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  8. #7
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenozuma View Post
    But Banshees don't always strike first, the masks just make them I10 (and other stuff now)
    Thats why no matter how good the craftworlders are, we will always be better. After all, we are the true eldar. AAAnyway, back to the ork thing...

    Ever since ranged weapons cant be used in combat, whenever I play the ork player treat that attack as close combat, thus I strike before him. No shooting in CC is a global rule that can never be broken by ANY units, in this case even though it states that it works like a shooting attack, we think of it as trying to shoot the guy while he is striking you while trying to keep his blows away. I think of it just like the talos's skimmer movement, it moves like a skimmer over terrain but doesnt get all the good benefits as 24" turbo, same thing here.

  9. #8
    Member JackalLegion's Avatar
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    Hold on, fogot to mention one thing from Codex: Orks. It says when using this attack, it counts as an additional shooting attack used in the assault phase. The key to this phrase is that it is a shooting attack that happens prior to close combat. If an Ork chooses to use this, he may still choose to make a close combat attack in the normal close combat phase. Even before the Orks hit the unit, they are firing mad numbers of lead and metal into their foes. thats where the attack happens. It is not really a close combat attack, it is an additional attack used in the assault phase, prior to actual close combat. So really, it would happen like this. The Orks choose to charge the unit, and because this is still the assault phase, they may elect to make that shooting attack. After these additional shooting attacks happen, the close combat phase begins. So, since your whyches automatically strike first in CLOSE COMBAT, they get to make their attacks before the bikers make their close combat attacks. After the wyches finish then it is the Ork Bikers turn to attack back. So in short, that additional attak happens in the assault phase, not the close combat phase.
    hope that clears things up better than my previous post
    -JL

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    Senior Member EternalEther's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JackalLegion View Post
    Hold on, fogot to mention one thing from Codex: Orks. It says when using this attack, it counts as an additional shooting attack used in the assault phase. The key to this phrase is that it is a shooting attack that happens prior to close combat. If an Ork chooses to use this, he may still choose to make a close combat attack in the normal close combat phase. Even before the Orks hit the unit, they are firing mad numbers of lead and metal into their foes. thats where the attack happens. It is not really a close combat attack, it is an additional attack used in the assault phase, prior to actual close combat. So really, it would happen like this. The Orks choose to charge the unit, and because this is still the assault phase, they may elect to make that shooting attack. After these additional shooting attacks happen, the close combat phase begins. So, since your whyches automatically strike first in CLOSE COMBAT, they get to make their attacks before the bikers make their close combat attacks. After the wyches finish then it is the Ork Bikers turn to attack back. So in short, that additional attak happens in the assault phase, not the close combat phase.
    hope that clears things up better than my previous post
    -JL

    I think I'd disagree with that. I'm no Ork specialist, but if that were the case then why would it say a "shooting attack that always strikes first"? (Taking that from the original post) That implies that it is indeed and attack that occurs after the ork bikers have engaged in combat. Idealy this ability suggests they are shooting while maddly driving at a unit, however if another unit has the ability to always strike first (wyches in the given example) then you could argue that they're so drugged up that while the bikes are charging at them, they're charging the bikes right back. Not for a bonus of attack, but I would say that if they both "always go first" they have an initiative of X, X being just high enough to go first. If they both have X, then they go at the same time. Theres no reason to roll saying "these guys strike more first than these guys."
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    Senior Member TzarNikolai's Avatar
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    the only thing we can go on is rules as worded as common sense is just that little bit different for everyone. so lets try and use an objective viewpoint on the one basis we all have in common.
    so please no more fluff based or common sense based arguements. what you would do in your gaming group to be sporting is quite besides the point. lets try and work out what should happen.

    however i don't have an ork codex so can someone give me a quote within forum rules.

    DE wyches "always strike first regardless of cover or weapons" i would say that the biker guns are a "weapon"

    now, someone with the ork book please.

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