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I want to like Dire Avengers. They're fluffy and I can convert a box of guardians I have into them.
But I just can't get over the fact that I feel they aren't going to perform well against MEQ. The fact they only carry shuricats means their range of viable targets is reduced to infantry and AV 10. And in order to actually use them they either have to run up the middle (which just feels un-eldar to me), or engage in wave serpent gymnastics to eventually land, fire 30 shots, and still only kill 3-4 marines.
Note that I'm not trying to start a theoretical debate here unless you have a specific tactic to share, we've already had those. What I'm interested in right now is some ancedotal evidence that all the dancing around required to use them right actually pays off. A link to a battle report would be best, but reports are a lot of work so I'll be happy to just hear a quick review of what the avengers did. And instant rep for anyone actually willing to post how Avengers failed them.
Also I'm aware that against other armies the DA are great. I do not care. As it is I'm thinking of throwing a game or two so the dark eldar and Orc players I know won't burn their armies in frustration.
The thing is, no Eldar are supposed to be compared to MEQs IMO because they will all lose. MEQs are normally good all rounders, whereas the Eldar are not at all; their units are very specialised.
Dire Avengers are no way near as powerful as MEQs 1v1 IMO, but point per point they might be, as Avengers are cheaper. But against MEQs I would probably use Rangers (snipers)and Guardians (cheap + Support Weapon), or get some infiltrating Striking Scorpions or something. I do feel Dire Avengers would be great against GEQs though; I wanna see those Guardsmen scream. :w00t:
With the new DA rules they seem to be able to unload a large numbe of shots. A squad of 10 will be able to force any MEQ to make so many armour saves that they are bound to fail some every turn.
The DA are a very eldary unit in that they take thought to use and really need to work with the rest of the army. However that means that it's more likely that something will go wrong. For example a plan could be to have them double shoot a large MEQ squad one turn then triple shoot and charge along with some shining spears the next. But what happens if something happens to the spears? Suddenly your DA's are all alone against a dozen necron warriors!
Now making that sort of thing work is what it means to be a good eldar general, but the payoff has to be worth the risk, and I don't know if DA's have it. Hence why I'd love battle reports.
Really I'd just love to hear anything about any experience people have had with MEQs and DA's.
With the fluff, can anyone fill me in with any information? Dire Avenger shrines don't exist do they? Are they just normal Eldar that follow the Path of the Warrior farther than being 'mere' Guardians? And other information welcome.
And good point about the Assault weapons. I was mainly thinking it gives you flexibility, which is always a good thing.
Now I want to here some good battle reports too. Anyone?
I just had a sudden burst of intelligence; why not search the Battle Report forum for "dire" and "avenger", and came up with quite a few reports.
Clicky -> "dire" "avenger"
Clicky -> "dire" "avengers"
I instantly saw this one by Firedrake which looks promising:
(Witch Hunters vs. Dire Avenger army)Witch Hunters vs. Dire Avenger armyIt's called a Dire Avenger army because he used 24 Dire Avengers, a Farseer, 2 Wraithlords and 2 Vypers; nothing more. Sounds like a perfect report for what you want!Yes. That's right. A army full of Dire Avengers. No, the guy who plays them isn't into drugs. Just thought I'd clear that up before we continue.
Looks as though they did OK in my opinion, although not too great. Most of the DAs died to bolter fire and flames (although if I was one of the DAs I think I would die too). They did kill a few Sisters in their lifetime though.
Hope that helps. :w00t:
EDIT: Don't forget there is a new Dex out soon, which changes them and supposedly make them a lot better.
Last edited by PaRaSiTe_X92; October 20th, 2006 at 22:33.
Dude, that is what he is asking for. Reports on how the NEW Avengers do. Not the old ones.
I don't have the new codex yet so, sorry I can't help. Even when I get it I can't see myself using them much. I guess I'm like sunnyside, I don't see the big deal. They seem OK, but thats it. Better than last editions, but only mediocre.
As for Fluff; yes Dire Avengers do have shrines. They had the first shrines, were the original Aspect Warriors. They represent Khaine's Avenger aspect. They are the hero types that will do all, make any sacrifice to defend/avenge their people.
EDIT; Da Mighty Camel mentions using them in a 1K battle in his Eldar Codex Review thread. He recons a small squad of 5 did well, when combined with "DOOM". Maybe PM him to get a more in depth opinion?
Last edited by Gallowglacht; October 20th, 2006 at 23:22.
And thanks about that fluff bit. I talk to Da_Mighty_Camel a fair bit on MSN so I'll ask him sometime (when MSN Messenger starts working ).
Ok, well I have the new dex and heres a run down on them.
They cost the same pointswise as they did before, although the exarch is now cheaper. The main difference is that their catapults are range 18" assault 2. This brings up so many new ways to utilise avengers, as they can now effectivly stay out of charge range of most things and unload 20 shots a go at them, against marines this is not so good as marines will just return fire, but when used with another unit, like spears and scorpions they can have a good effect. Another tactic I think people are going to pick up is loading 10 into a waveserpent unloading them and fireing 30 shots at a chosen squad. from here there are two options, either have them charge you and hang on in there with defend or have a unit of spears mop up.
You have to think of them as not a unit that can go round causing mass destuction to everything it meets, but more of a unit that must be used in conjunction with the rest of the army effectivly. They are perfect for holding objectives and also as shock troops mounted in waveserpents. I think in this new codex even more so than the last you have to use your army as an army, you cant just have one allmighty squad that is going to turn the way of the battle, (although spears now look like they might be able to do this) every unit must be supporting every other unit and the avengers are your base, they can perform many roles. As normal, giving the exarch the right tools is essential, if they are going to be defending an objective for example then your going to want the 5+ invun (Shimmershield) and bladestorm.
On their own they are not very effective but the player who uses them on their own is going to lose. Just think about the different ways they can be used with differnt units and use their diversity to your advantage, suprise your enemies by using differnt tactics each game, just be imaginitive.
Hope some of this helps.
I only own 5 dire avengers (and I'm about to be forced to use them for compulsory troops in the new codex) but I have played with the minimum 5 man squad with no exarch.
It has won me the game on 2 occasions. One they held an essential building in cityfight pushing me 1 over my opponent. The other they tied up a 20 man necron squad for ages in cc allowing the rest of my eldar to do what they wanted in safety.
And this is under their older crappier rules.
Also you can use them as distractions if you don't like guardians. A lot of people (mostly the ones that don't know eldar) treat dire avengers as being on par with fire dragons, banshees and scorpions. I have often sat there wondering what the heck my opponent is doing as they blow my 5 avengers off the board and let my 10 scorpions charge.
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