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I've been thinking about getting started on a DE army, I like the fluff and heard that they are really specific, which intrigues me. I've heard they are quite hard to play with, but are really good and fun when you get the hang of how to use them properly...
Basically I'm wanting to hear from you guys (and girls) why you think they are soo good.
Thanks in advance.:ninja:
Hmm... why are dark eldar good...
Well, firstly, its got to be the speed, I love fast armies from dark eldar, to eldar, tyranids and tau, and the dark eldar are the fastest of the lot.
Then its the flexibility, most armies have this too, but the ability to be super devoted to cc only (incubi, wyches, warrior raiders, grotesques, mandrakes, talos, lords etc....) or entirely shooty (warriors, gunboats, ravagers, some reavers, haemonuli) is cool, of cource a balance is always much better. Dark eldar are really nice in close combat, I think they're better there than they are at shooting (because dark eldar die like anything when they get shot at back).
What you heard about them being really specific is true to a certain extent, you've probably heard that incubi rock, that they're really good and most things can't stop them, this is true, but wait till you charge them at a mob of orks, see how they handle that, they'll be mince within a turn. But its not all like that, warriors are very flexible and I'd like to think of them as one of our best units, if not the best. Our HQ's are reallly good without being giant daemons of eternal doom. We have some interesting and characterful choices like grotesques and mandrakes and warp beasts, but most people don't bother with them (except warp beasts) because other units can usually do the same job better but cheaper in points.
One of the most powerful tools at our disposal is suprise and uncertainty. I mean, most people have probably never even seen a dark eldar army before let alone played against them and hence are usually very unprepared for facing them when you play them and you could get some easy wins just because they have no idea what to do against such a different army.
It is true that most new players struggle with dark eldar at the beginning, but when they get into it they start dominating, this isn't exclusively the case, some of us start out pretty well too.
Hope I've been of some help, and even if I havn't, there should be other people to clean up what I've missed out.
Tenozuma - The Burninator... I came, I saw, I posted.Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
Dark Eldar player.
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Assume everything I say has a "what I think" disclaimer.
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Tenozuma hit most of the bases. I'll add that DE speed is so monstrous it allows the fabled first turn charge under the right circumstances. In addition there are a number of very powerful pattern armies around, which come in various flavours. Web Way Portal (WWP) armies are a joy to fiedl as they confuse and disorient your opponent and allow you to assault specific sections of the enemy army and thus isolate and destroy them at your leisure. DE armies can also be powerful on both attack and defense,a s long as you have a solid plan for your list.
Which brings me to the main point of the post, I certainly find and I know other people do too, that having a good list is not enough with DE you ahve to have a good plan too and that plan has to have at least 3 contingencies for when bits of it get killed. In addition you ahve to make your plan as you build your list. DE are definetly the thinking mans army.
Dark Eldar is a top tier army, it may take awhile longer to get used to their playstyle but either way you will in the end play one of the most potent armies in the game.
...and I love it :w00t:
""What's the matter? Don't ya like clowns? Don't we make ya laugh?" - Captain Spaulding.
Take into account all these variables and you will get a handle on how to play DE as a beginner:
1. Terrain Set-up. This is probably the single most important ingredient for me - it doesnt matter what list you have, if the terrain isnt condusive to your play style then it will be a short, painful game. Demand the minimum 25% amount of cover.
2. Mission - play the mission and always be aware of it. The DE are not a slug it out type army that you can just ignore the mission and go "meat-grinder" on his arse. You can confuse him or pretend you aren't playing the mission but be prepared to make those moves in the last turns with your incredible speed. Too many times I have just tried to "take him out" to find that I cant do it but realize that if I move the remaining forces towards the objective I can win despite having lost in victory points. Take and hold and cleanse are my favorites.
3. Deployment, with the other two variables in mind the deployment of your troops is critical in my game play. As I deploy, I try to match up what the other player is putting down - I have battles already picked out for my units. Most of the time you can guess what the enemy is going to do but what I like is to make the enemy play off of me. With my units as fast as they are I should be able to make my opponent play off of my moves (my previously planned battles) even if I get second move - its tough but usually I can overcome 2nd move and have my opponent playing off me by the 2nd turn. Then I am in control and pretty much dictate who fights what and when. Use the cover wisely!
4. Know what your units can do and dont fight fair. This is a tough one and if you got the other 3 variables down but dont know what a Talos can do in CC or how far the wyches can assault then you will be throwing your units away. You will find that all the members here have different ideas on how to use your units so it is up to you to figure out your game style.
As for fighting unfairly, I am referring to out-numbering your opponent 2 squads to 1. I cant stress this enough, I dont care what that other support squad is just get used to creating battles in your favor and not letting 1 on 1 battles happen unless you KNOW you are going to win (like an Archon with 5 Incubi fighting a squad of marines). Once you know what your units can do then this gets easier.
So if you can "juggle" all these variables then, yes, the DE are that good.
I will post a slight disagreement that we are a very powerful army. I cringe everytime I read a post from someone asking if we are good or powerful. I think we are middle of the road as far as power goes. If we were all powerful, then we would be as common as Chaos :shifty:
A huge part of our power is what Tenozuma touched on very eloquently and thats speed. Speed to out maneuver our opponents. And speed to move 12" , deploy 2 more, FOF and then assault up to 12 (with drugs). So a possible 21" to 32" assault distance is potent.
However, I think a big part of our success is the army isn't as fielded as the rest which means people don't know or under estimate the strength of the army. We are essentailly a two trick pony. WWP and a lesser used airforce (in 4th ed). Once your opponent gets used to the speed and engagement distance, they will learn the proper counter moves and set ups.
-We are have a glass jaw. Most of our units have a 5+ save and wyches are vulnerable to shooting. Template weapons are a royal pain.
-Our vehicles are extremely fast but also have armor 10 on raiders and open topped. When they get hit, they crash and we take casualties and entanglement.
-Our good units are great (wyches, lords, Ravs, Incubii), and our bad units are just that ... bad (scourges, mandrakes).
- mostly a leadership 8 army.
- A lot of our gear items and abilities have draw backs. Goblet of spite works for and against us. Warp carriers can be killed and don't deploy. Not a lot of items in our inventory which boost up leadership.
-Horribly outdated codex/FAQ. A lot of unanswered questions... do wych weapons work both ways? Can skimmers come out of blocked WWP's, is a blaster a 2 handed weapon, does a horrorfex always get to shoot? These are just a few of the things that we argue over even amongst ourselves.
-Speed as mentiuoned
-A lot of AP 2/3 weapons in the game means we kill Marines with ease. We can field a lot of dark lances, blasters and dissintegrators.
-Strong assault units. Wyches and Inccubii are great in CC. As is Lelith and any of our basic lords.
It does take some time to learn the army and it is one of the most fun armies out there IMO. The others in this thread may disagree but IMO we are not one of the strongest armies out there but we can hold our own. From all the games I have played and watched at tournies... we tend to win big when we win but can also lose big. (anyone who has ever lost their WWP depolyers to eldar snipers/mind powers?)
I think we are a great army but like any other force, we have our problems.
Kwik Kwag makes several good points as does Redant. The obsessive thing is well, yeah, probably true. You have to plan ahead and the tips given by Kwik Kwag are good tips indeed. I have found through playing at varying levels of play that the speed and power to dictate the battle are hugely advantageous and, as Redant said I twnd to win big or lose big, however I find that the main reason for losing is no that the enemy did well, but that I made a mistake. If I am on my game and don't make unforced errors then I will win against an opponent who is on his/her game and not making unforced errors. Mind you one mistake can wipe your army, they are not a forgiving force and if you do screw up it is hard to recover. Losing a unit oyu had planned forthe loss of, however is not screwing up. Losing a unit wihtout a contingency is.
So I guess the summary of this post is:
Dark Eldar win games. Dark Eldar lose games. Your opponent doesn't do either. (usually).
Since it hels to hear the same advice from multiple sources I'll add my 0.02 worth of agreement:
I think one of the reasons this army is considered a 'vet' army is that you really need to match up your units properly against the right enemy units, knowledge most people aquire over time and with experience.
Playing a Dark Eldar army forced me to:
1) reread the rules and start hanging out in multiple boards' rules forums
2) consider what scenarios it's useful to give away first turn
3) to really pay attention to terrain and how to know which table edge/quarter to chose keeping in mind what army I'm facing and the scenario I'm playing - as an extreme example, this weekend at a tourney I would have been far better off taking the quarter with no terrain and forcing the IG player to deploy in the quarter with the worst sight lines (because it had the most cover). It was an escalation match so my raiders weren't starting on the board anyway and in no danger of being shot first turn. I also should have chosen to go first so that my reserves came in first. What happened was that I got excellent 2nd turn reserve rolls but then he went on turn 3 and only needed 3's to bring in all the tanks that didn't show up turn 2, and that hosed me. Anyway, it forces you to evaluate scenario and deployment more than if you played Space Marines.
The best players of all armies of course do all these things already but some mediocre marine players can chose not to pay close attention to these details and still do reasonably well. I found that my Dark Eldar army just punished me for my ignorance until I learned to be a smarter player.
Lastly I'll agree to the generalization that this army often wins big or loses big and when you lose it usually starts with an error you made. But it is, hands down, my favourite army to play.
Last edited by medic_4077; October 23rd, 2006 at 21:19.
War Record Since Sept 2005
Old Codex 48-20-9 Dark Eldar
New Codex 1-0-0 Dark Eldar
Power and popularity are two vary diffirent things, people start playing space marines, eldar and necrons without even knowing that dark eldar race even exists. In an case, any army can be powerful as long as you play it right, so power isnt a really good adjective to describe 40k races, some are easier to play others are harder. In 40k, we are second hardest race to play, harlequins are number one. As for popularity, people dont know much of us since not many play DE, but what I have learned is that they still fear us. Even though not many have ever seen DE in action, they know that are speed, CC skills and special weapons are very dangerous when used in a smart way, and besides, are you going to listen to some 15 year old kid that thinks that DE are weak cause of their armor or are you going to listen to a more mature 19 year old who knows that any army if used right can be "powerful"
Not sure what your point is really. As I said WG, people continually ask if we are a powerful army. My answer is we are really a middle of the road in terms of power. What does that mean? It means a good general will have success with DE but other army flavors will have him winning more easily (some chaos armies come to mind) than DE.
Proof? How many other armies does meaning going second means your difficulty goes way up? I play Sisters, guard and DE regularly. The other two armies don't have near the risk involved if they go second. Going first means you have a better chance to get your WWP's out where they need to be or boosting jet bikes or raiders to forward terrain (in the case of using the raider airforce). Going second means your opponent has a better chance shooting up your WWP squads or moving his CC units up to better countercharge.
My point about popularity is simply that if we were an extremely powerful army(translation we dont lose often), then you would see far more people playing DE. Its just that simple. People like to win which is why you continually see the same army types in tournies. If DE were as potent and powerful as people mention above, you would see them winning or placing in GT's, sales would go up and GW wouldnt force us to direct mail. So there is a definite correlation between powerful and popular.
I totally agree with you that in the right hands they, like any army, can be deadly(powerful). The point of the reply is for the OP. Take the comments that we are "one of the most potent" armies with a grain of salt. I enjoy playing DE. Its a fun army. There are far stronger armies out there.