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I just can't beat the eldar. Especially the new eldar. I currently run my Wych Cult raider heavy/ravanger army. But I just keep getting shot down, and on occasion even out assaulted! My friends already have copies of the new dex and just keep killing me.
I have come to hate harlequins with a burning passion...
Basically I'm having many problems, like how to take down the unkillable falcon (made even harder since my opponents always take that new wargear that lets them settle to the ground when immobolised). Even with my wyches, the tooled out harlequins/pheonix lord/farseer/avatar/always hitting first banshees, and any combos of these, just keep killing me. And again... pretty much everything they have can shoot me down.
I need some help here guys...
Wow, my GW store wont let anyone play the new eldar rules until the dex comes out on the 28th. So as of yet I can't help much with tactics other than generalities that you probably already know.
I will say this much, my recent trend to become very shooty is starting to look like a wise tactic - and very shooty means 3 ravagers and 2 squads of bikes with blasters and raider squads.
Anything else you can describe would help us more.
Either way, getting a heads up before the new codex is still good. Wraithguard are now T6 with cannons wounding on 2+, 6+ INSTANT KILL. Wraithlords have that sword thing, autarchs and all other stuff, WOW, basicly the faster we get used to our new opponent the better it is for us, especially when all eldar players get to know their new army. Anyway, yes the new eldar are incredibly good even with some downsides of the starcannon loosing a shot, but on the other hand the scatter lasser is now Assault 4, so we can expect that to be used a lot.
I support the idea of playing our new opponents excessively, to get to know them and find their new weaknesses.
But before we start commenting, please post which problems you have. I mean specificly, which units against which and which vehicles against which, and which tactic against which. There are simply too many things to discuss.
From what you said: some basic changes to eldar...
Banshees are terrible units to fight agaisnt, especially with the new rules. Best way to counter them is shoot them with our cheap warriors, if the enemy uses a waveserpent, try to get your wyches to fight them. Yes banshees will have power weapons, yet we have invulnerable save. I dont think too many people use banshee masks, but wyches the way I remmember strike at the same I as the banshees so in the end, its a close ratio. Make use of combat drugs, that one item that can save you in tyhe time of need. Banshees swing at wyches at WS2 vs WS4 which is good odds for you, even if they manage to strike before you do, in retaliation theoretically you do more dmg.
Wraithguard, now even more powerful then they have ever been. With T6 and guns wounding on 2+ and killing on a 6 they can pose a serious damn problem, especially when the worth of our disintigrator has been decreased against them. Now is pretty much the time to use lots and lots of lances against Iyanden players. But wraithguard are still just as weak in CC thus our retinue still remains very dangerous to them, incubi are great units to counter the new wraithguard and lances are pretty much the only weapons that can hurt them now.
Striking scorpions didnt change much except the new models look 10 times worse then the older once, still easily killed with disintigrator shots or countered with wyces in CC.
As for vehicles, well falcon is a new version of a hammerhead, its hard to kill and now that starcannons are finished, we can expect tons of scatter lasers.
Ow, almost forgot, the warwalkers can be equiped with 2 weapons of the same type and still counting them as two seperate weapons not twin linked so I think we should worry about these guys much more then about falcons, 3 warwalkers, each with 2scatter lasers, each with 4 assault shots, WOW. Question is how the f*** are we suppose to compete with that?
Last edited by WraithGuardian; October 24th, 2006 at 06:00.
My biggest problem is against the tourny eldar players. They play mech lists mostly. 3 falcons, sometimes 2. Wave Serpents with scatter lasers, a few bright lances. I have trouble against the cc version (banshees that strike 1st, harlequins with rending, and those damn special characters and autrachs (spelling?) that hit with multiple attacks) and the shooty version (dark reapers that down my transports and have a 3+ save, fire dragons, wraithguard, etc). It doesn't help that some wraithguard inst-killed my archite once...
Those swooping hawks are also annoying with their "leave the battlefield and deep strike back in" rule. They denied me objectives a few times now. Plus they hit my skimmers on 4's with haywire grenades, yet another way my transports go down, as if their superior shooting wasent bad enough!
Plus mostly these are all in the above transports which are hard enough to take down (how can I get that damn falcon?).
I'm looking for any and all tips on how to fight eldar. No matter how basic or general.
How about trying out a torrent army, cheesy? Yes. Horribly weak in CC? Yes. Shock to your opponent if they play Mech? Hell yes.
1 Dracon, Punisher, Drugs
2 Warriors Dark Lances
236 (x2) 472
6 DEW, 1 DL, Raider
105 (x6) = 630
Ravager 2 Dissie/1DL
115 (x3) = 345
Thats 33 Dark Matter weapons in 19 seperate units, they will have to seriously split there fire and your is immense. If they are vehicle heavy they will likely take 2-3 of your untis out a turn (they are rubbish after all) but the torrent of dark matter will take down vehicles smooth as you like.
No idea if this will work, but torrent lists are funny and can be suprisingly effective if you have a mech heavy opponent.
The whole point is to get the units off the raiders by the end of turn one, the new eldar rules grant them tau abilities similar to battlesuits, especially the swooping hawks.
First thing is first, now falcons are a serious problem but lances still kill them fairly easily. yes holo field and other upgrades help, but the new version is simply stronger, its definitely not immortal.
Dark reapers are very expensive so I rarely see more then 3 or 4, you only need to kill one to force em to take Ld test with penalties. Disintigrator kill them very quickly, a scourge squad with 4 SCs can definitely take out a few to force them to fall back. Overall not many people use them, if they do try to keep the raiders out of their sight, raiders are suicide units and I hate to see my own men die if it goes down before its destination point.
Our best unit to counter banshees with is wyches obviously, in a fight wych unit of 10 with agoniser will definitely kill 10 banshee, because their power weapons are useless and they strike at half the WS. Wyches have combat drugs so they get a good bonus no matter what they roll.
Striking scorpionare easily killed by incubi, if you dont like incubi, disintigrator fire kill MEQs very well so I personally like to soften a suad up a bit with disintigrator fire before smashing into them with my wychs.
Harlequins are expensive as hell point wise, almost no one uses them, they die easily to template weapons since they have only cover saves and have wych profiles, use destructors on them and they are gonners. T3 with no armor save shot by Str4 weapons template, u do the math
P.S scourges are very usefull against the new eldar, in terms of taking out the guns platforms and dark reapers, I never thought i would say this but I finally found a role for them despite their points. I think we wil end up using WWPs a lot vs the new eldar
If you can't stop them from shooting you down, I would try to shoot them down first. Just take a 5 man team of Scourges, one of them being a Syrabite, and pump them all up with dark lances. That way, If you have any higher terrain, then you wil get 5 dark lance shots at whatever target you like on the first turn, and with balistic skill 4, strength 8 AP 2 weapon that always penetrates on at least a 5+, then you have a nasty squad. I used this tactic against a Speed Freaks army, and got rid of his precious hellhound on the first turn. Another thing that might be helpful is to take a unit or two of twenty man Dark Eldar Warriors with splinter cannons and rifles, and just charge right towards the enemy units blasting away. Eldar have stronger guns, we have better BS. If I were you, use as many big guns, like take an extra ravager, and that will play to our advantage as we will hit much more often then they will just with that one extra BS point.
Wow, wait a minute. Scourges with dark lances? When did that get anything but funny? Even with splinter cannons scourges are just pretty much useless (sure there are a few things but they don't even make their points back against tyranids and orks), with dark lances, they're even more expensive, and they can't move and shoot with them, whats the point of jump packs if you can't use them?
Allow me to demonstrate:
10 Warriors, 2 dark lances = 100 points.
10 scourges, 4 dark lances = 260 + upgrades like sybarite or whatever.
5 scourges, 4 dark lances = 190 + upgrades like sybarite or whatever.
So, with the 5 scourges thing, for 10 points more, you could have 2 warrior squads (with 2 lances each) which has the same ammount of dark lances with 4 TIMES the ammount of wounds on there, and 16 splinter rifles for support. neither can move and shoot, the warriors are better in every way, they can target more than 1 squad at once, they can shoot at the predator with one squad, blow it up, and take out a terminator or 2 with the other. Scourges with dark lances in my honest opinion are the single worst unit in the entire game. By far.
Horribly overpriced warriors with wings with similarly overpriced weapons, contradictory roles. Now lets look at their weapons. With splinter cannons: Targets - large ammounts of cheap weak troops with 5+ or worse armour. Strengths - Getting behind the enemy and possibly making them turn around and have to charge at them, away from the rest of your army (perfect against black templars). Deepstriking achieves that by the way. Effectiveness: Low. Now with dark lances: Targets: - Tanks, and extremely heavy infantry and characters. Strengths - None spring to mind. Effectiveness: Comical.
Tenozuma - The Burninator... I came, I saw, I posted.Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
Dark Eldar player.
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Scourges with lances are the BIGEST waste of points in the history of 40k, the unit has to be stationary to shoot which takes away the point of jet packs. Splinter cannons are fine but lances...NEVER
I agree with Tenozuma about their price and performance but they are useful for specific roles during the game.