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Well, I've read up a good deal on all the armies out there and I've come to the conclusion that I want to play a fast attack army, preferrably with a lot of shots and a lot of skimmers. I currently play a Chaos army, with a focus on Slaanesh so I guess you can say I have a medium-range, slow but assault oriented army. I wouldn't mind going for an assault army again, but I do know that I want an army with a lot of speed and mobility. From what I have read Ravenwing SM, Tau, Eldar, and Dark Eldar are the places to go for that kind of army. My friend already plays Ravenwing and Eldar is out of the question since another friend called dibs on that one, so the choice is between Dark Eldar and Tau.
I like the mobility that Tau have, and I think going with a lot of skimmers a la Devilfishes and Hammerheads would be great fun, but I have concerns that eventually my units will be caught up to and destroyed. The Tau are ridiculously weak in close combat, but their ranged weapons seem to make up for it. So am I correct in saying that the Tau are a fast force but one that can only shoot at the enemy?
As for Dark Eldar, they seem to be split between the two. They are beyond fast but they seem to focus more on assault and CC while their cousins focus on speed and shooting. I have seen a few lists where the DE are shooty instead of cc oriented, but the amount of fire power they have seems to be less than that of Tau or Eldar. They also seem to have super weak units, whereas most Eldar have 3+/4+ saves and some have MEQ statlines. Dark Eldar are lucky to have a 5+ and seem very fragile for an assaulting army. Combine that with the fact that the Codex is very outdated and I have a tough choice.
I like the fluff for both armies, although I do like the robot models more than the evil pointy heads, but my main concerns are playability. I like to be effective in any game I play, and as long as it is fast I wouldn't mind playing my army as pure shooty or pure assault... since my other army, Chaos, can do either very well. Also, from what I have read both of these armies are difficult to play and very fragile... one false move and thats the game.
Anyway, I was hoping some of the more experienced players might be able to sum up how each army plays and the tactics that involved. I also am curious as to how they do against other armies... my main opponents are Space Marines, Necrons, Tyranids, and soon to be Eldar. I should mention that I have read all of the FAQs and Tactica but I think that perhaps I don't know enough about the army to really get any real amount of info from it... perhaps some battle reports would be good to read... and also, I did read that 3 page thread on how strong/weak DE are but I just can't decide which army is for me. Thank you very much, I look forward to finally making up my mind on a second army... all I know is I want something different than Chaos that is tactically sound but a challenge... an army that can win versus any opponent given the right strategy.
Against other armies. Dark eldar are very good against space marines, thats for sure and a fast dark eldar army with a reasonable ammount of ranged firepower should dominate a tyranid army, but necrons and eldar are almost without a doubt the hardest armies for dark eldar to beat. Tau, esspecially mobile tau are very formidable, combining stealth suits and crisis suits and fire warriors in devilfish (fish of furying) you've got an army that is almost impossible to assault but pretty much kills everything with shooting. Tau would be easier to play with definately.
The tau play as a shoot and scoot army pretty much, they shoot, shoot a bit more, then shoot 1 more time for good luck and run away and repeat. Dark eldar aren't really a hit and run army, more of a hit fast, hit first, hit hard. Very vunerable and very powerful in assault, sure, you can make a shooty dark eldar army with lots of warriors and ravagers and such but they are in my mind undoubtedly better at CC with wyches and incubi and such. The lord is a very powerful character. Dark eldar use cover probably more than any other army in the game, warriors need it all the time or they're dead meat and you need it 100% of the time for your raiders to hide behind untilly you start using webway portals. Warriors are cheap and versatile, mostly a shooty unit but can do just fine in CC if they have a sybarite with agoniser. Wyches are our counter assault assault unit, use them to target other assault units and you should come out on top most of the time, provided the odds are fair. Incubi kill space marines, thats it, and they're really good at it, if you send them against orks, they're dead - unless you hit a mega armoured nobs squad or something. Ravagers are very powerful with 3 disintegrators, they slaughter marines or tau, very fragile though. Reaver bikes are pretty good, with 2 blasters and a succubus with power weapon and tormentor helm they are fairly versatile, they're good at anti tank and a good supporting assault unit.
Tenozuma - The Burninator... I came, I saw, I posted.Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
Dark Eldar player.
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Dark Eldar are the fastest army out there, as fast as I'm aware.
The only army to have access to huge amounts of fast, open-topped vehicals, combined with fleet of foot, and (sometimes) a 12" charge range. (this is nasty vs tau, when you launch a Dracon forth about 25-31" on the first turn, right into their firewarrior squads)
They are also undoubtly the most punished, under fire. T3 and 5+ save is mincemeat under bolter fire. AV10 can be penetrated by the basic weapons of Tau, and glanced by most.
We have huge capacity to win in combat, due to our superior speed, (nothing much can survive 3 or 4 agoniser wielding manics, backed up with a cavalcade of inf. attacks) allowing us to pick fights, and generally outnumber any unit we assault 2:1 at least
We may die in droves to shooting, but we can dish it out as well, with 2 excellent heavy weapons choices being available to warriors squads, Splinter cannons and Dark Lances.
Cheap guns, surrounded by relatively expendable wounds, each with a medicore gun (good for gaunts, at least)
Ravagers are unholy demons of pain.
Used well, they can dominate the field.
A competent DE general, with sufficent cover on the field, will usually win against a space marine force. Especially with Incubi.
Eldar can respond to our speed a little easier, and are an even match for a good DE general.
Tyrannids generally get slaughtered. With the usual DE army packing an inordinate amount of dark lance, bringing down the big 'uns is easy enough... And "gunboating" kills gaunts in swarms. normal gaunts can't even touch you, and even genestealers can't do much.
The main worry is Warriors, especially with the new inst-kill rules... (
If you're looking for an army, that with strategy, is capable of winning every game. The DE are for you.
minimalism is the key.
You forgot Speed Freaks, they are infact 1" faster than DE for vehicle movement although they don't get to fleet. Anyway I'll let you know haw I fare against other armies (although milage may vary for any other general)
Marines: fairly easy to beat, especially lists with LRC and terminators
Tyranids: relatively easy to beat as long as I have a well rounded list.
Necrons: I have only ever played them once and the list was awful, I destroyed him piecemeal.
Eldar: I have only played against eldar once, it was an Aliatoc list and it was very difficult to deal with. But they no longer exist with the new codex so I have no useful input
Orcs: I play them all the time and find them difficult to beat
Chaos: I win more than I lose against Chaos but they are harder than regular marine armies. But we don't have many demon bomb armies or Uber Princes around here.
Tau: against a weak list or general they get slaughtered but against a tight list with a smart player they are the hardest army for me to beat.
IG: i get mixed results against guard, anything from a Victorious Slaughter to a Draw to a crushing defeat. I guess it must be thier lists are so customizable, every list I have played against was substantially different from the last (maybe 6 games).
I would not really call Tau a fast army, they may have neat movement rules but are generally not moving 6" beyond thier place of deployment.
Dark Eldar are very dynamic and exciting to play. I win more than I lose and that's enough to keep me happy because the games always have at least one dramatic moment where something either goes devestatingly right or woefully wrong. The speed of the army also gives you plenty of opportunity to take risks which can be exciting (some days, some games just aren't about who wins, know what I mean?).
If you know the rules well and are familiar with the stats of other armies' units (so you know which units to send against what) then you'll almost certainly enjoy playing Dark Eldar. And if you aren't used to really evaluating the effects of terrain, deployment and first/second turn and how each relates to both your opposing army and the scenario played then you'll get to learn a more indepth side of the game.
Last edited by medic_4077; October 26th, 2006 at 16:37.
War Record Since Sept 2005
Old Codex 48-20-9 Dark Eldar
New Codex 1-0-0 Dark Eldar
Thats what im looking for as well.Well, I've read up a good deal on all the armies out there and I've come to the conclusion that I want to play a fast attack army,
An army of wyches, or a lot of wychs, backed up with a warrior squads, raveners, possibly a talos, seems fun and deadly.
But i really dont like the wyches models.
The HQs seem like great fun, one of the few charactors in the game who can walk right up to a Demon Prince, and teach him a thing or two about CC!
But i really dont like the wyches/lord models, which would be the back bone of my force.
Tau also seems like a good list, probably easier to play, although no where near as fast.
Anyway, goodluck, I think ill wait and see if any rumors come out about a new codex, and hopefully new models.
Dark Eldar can be VERY shooty. One thing that sets them apart, shooting-wise, from their Eldar cousins is that they can take up to two heavy weapons AND up to two special weapons for each warrior squad. While the eldar can take bright lances in their troops squads (for a hefty price), the dark eldar get their lances for only 10 points!!!
Ravagers are the epitome of shooting, They can be decked out for serious anti-tank hunting, or give them disintegrators (the equivelent of plasma cannons but with an alternate firing mode), you can kill terminators in droves.
In most games, I'm usually able to both outshoot AND out-assault my opponent.
Their armor is weak, yes, VERY weak, but once they get into close combat they might as well be naked (with their high initiative, high number of attacks, and massive ammounts of power weapons, they'll usually kill everything within their 2" killzone before your opponent can strike back). And don't forget that while wyches only have a 6+ armor save for shooting, they have a nice invulnerable save once they get into close combat.
Tau might be easier to use than Dark Eldar, but they are a very tricky army to use well. Many beginners make the mistake of taking Tau and using them as a simple stand-and-shoot army, and that is a very tough strategy to win with. They are much more of a "shoot and scoot" army. You have to hit em' hard from one side, and then run away before just as they start to reinforce that side (they can be very slippery).
When using the dark eldar, there are a couple strategies that you can use. The simplest way (reccommended for beginners), is to load up on assault troops and slam headfirst into their lines. You might lose half of your army on the way, but just a handful of wyches is usually more than a match for most armies.
My favorite strategy is to take a mix of shooting and close combat. During the first few turns I like to toy with my opponent. I'll have my raiders manuever slowly around cover, staying out of line of sight, inching their way forward. In the meantime, my warrior squads, ravagers, and spare raiders make swiss cheese out of his army. Then on the last turn or so, I pounce on my enemy, finishing off his exhausted forces and quickly defeating him.
This last strategy works well because not many people know the capabilities of the Dark Eldar. Ask anyone out there who uses the DE or has played against a good DE player and they will tell you that DE will rip you apart. If you talk to anyone who has never played against DE, they will tell you that DE are a worthless, crappy, horrible, wimpy army (those people are very ill-informed). It for that last reason that DE generally do very well. I take my DE to grand tournaments, and nearly everyone I play against always says "oh Dark Eldar, never played against them before".
It is very easy to lead people into a false sense of security when you play DE. In one game I played against a nid player at a tournament who had never seen DE, I held my assault back until the end of turn 6. I spent the whole game playing cat and mouse with him, shooting, and running. I was able to kill off all his warriors, and most of his genestealers, leaving mostly just gaunts. His gaunts were so much faster than Carnifex and Tyrant that before he realized it, they were out of synapse range, in a nice little cluster in the middle of the board. On the last turn, I sprung my trap, hitting his gaunt group of 100+ models from all sides with my entire army, and was able to wipe out EVERY single model before they got to attack back. He was so suprised since he had never fought in close combat, and he just assumed they were average just like the Eldar...he was wrong.
Everybody knows what the Tau are capable of because they are played to death, but if you really want to shock and awe your friends...go with DE. I've been playing for 6 years and have 4 different armies (DE was my first), and I still ALWAYS have fun using DE.
You won't regret it, I promise.
My 40K Armies:
- Thousand Sons
- Mordian Imperial Guard
- Dark Eldar
My Fantasy Armies:
- Lhamian Vampire Counts
My 40K Armies:
- Thousand Sons
- Mordian Imperial Guard
- Dark Eldar
My Fantasy Armies:
- Lhamian Vampire Counts
Yea, i thinking ill hold out, (both armies i want are comming out probably in the next year or two ravenwing, and DE.)
I really want to do Dark Eldar now, but i absolutely HATE the models. Plus if I make the large investment now, i'd have to rebuy a bunch of models in 2 years when they are rereleased. I don't suppose they would release any new models before then? It sucks that I like the army so much... it was actually my first choice over Chaos (i was told to pick them because they're easier to play and i had to Direct Order DE) but half the models are atrocious.
Do you guys do any modding or just stick with them? I want to get rid of the pointy heads and make the Wyches look cooler. Everything else is okay. I don't suppose I could mod my entire army and still call them DE ... since it might not be readily apparent minus the hats.
I dunno, you could, but youd really have to do a lot of work, and youd have to explain what everything is at the start of each game to every new player you play against.
However, ive heard FB dark elves have a witch unit that looks pretty good. (for wyches)