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I was wondering: how many members of the harlie troupe should be kitted out with kisses?
I'd say every single one of them... but any other opinion is more than welcome!
Last edited by Kheldar; November 22nd, 2006 at 22:14.
- Just love that maki! -
It depends what you're wanting to do with the unit and who you play most often. If you're running a 6 strong squad in a falcon you're probably right. If you're running a 10 strong squad, I don't know.
The important thing to remember is that you don't want to kill the unit you charge in the first turn. You want to have it stand strong and protect you from being shot, then die in the second turn. Too many kisses and harlies will die to bolter fire.
Everything I have told you, even this, is a lie.
I will be fielding my harlies for th efirst time this friday so I'm trying to reason out the best tactic to use.
Maybe 6 kisses period should be good (i.e. 6 man squad completely kitted, 10man squad, only 6 are kitted and 4 are normal)
As I'm here (I'll edit the title) what do you guys think of the troupe leader upgrade: you are actually paying a potload of points for a meager extra attack and +1Ld... is it worth it?
- Just love that maki! -
Harlies are tough to shoot, but just in case that happens you may wont to have a few harlies without kisses, so that you dont lose additional points when they get shot.
When I was your age Pluto was a planet and Wraithlords had D-cannons! Ah, the good old days!
Id say that seven kisses in a ten man squad, as, by odds, they should kill around eight marines on the charge, so your average ten man marine squad will just barely eek by into a second round. As far as the troupe leader goes, I think that its worth it if you cant afford the shadowseer. The power weapon on the charge will do some decent damage and the attack and leadership will come in handy. If I had to choose though, i would definately go for the shadowseer as his veil of tears ability is simply incredible.
So, what about Jesters?
I'd field one of them just to soften the enemy up a bit before they actually charge, and only have 5-6 kisses.
This way even a small squad (or a big one made smaller from the guns) will be around for a 2nd turn.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
im sorry but forget the troupe leader. you dont need anything but the shadowseer dude. he makes it to where your range is 2d6 times 2 to hit them. dont need anything else. id go with 5 kisses in any size squad, and a shadowseer. thats my opinion
Even with foot slogging Harlies I think it depends a lot on how you plan to use them.
For example I'm thinking of fielding some harlies in an army with quite a few dire avengers. These units would be operating together on the board. Basically the dire avengers will be in front with the behind so it'll be hard to shoot at them. When enemy units get close enough the harlies will spring forward and attack and the dire avengers will move forward to either lay down fire on other units or charge any that would threaten the harlies.
Since I plan to keep shooters off the harlies I woudn't take any without kisses. However I may only take an eight man squad as that should deal with most threats in one turn and would let me field an extra spear.
This is something I found on here a few weeks ago. It's well detailed and I agree with the notion hes putting forward, that you want to finish off your opponent in his combat phase, then be free again to move and charge in your go. For this reason I think about 4-5 kisses.
I'm sorry, I don't know who wrote this, but it wasn't me!
Now with the new codex we finally got our harlequins back. And I love them. They are awesome in cc and have my two favorite USR's, furious charge and hit & run. But they drop like flies when exposed to gunfire. This means that wou would want to have them either at least 18"-24" (depending on if you like to gamble) away from you opponent when in his LOS, or locked in cc where they can't be targeted. I've been looking a lot at their rules and also done some numbers, and this is what I've come up with.
First of all, the Shadowseer is a must. Like I said before, harlequins will die a horrible death to even lasgunfire so Veil of tears is mandatory to make your troupe live to see cc.
The Troupe Master is a nice touch, you get +1 attack and +1Ld and either a harlequins kiss or a power weapon. He's not a must have, but the +1Ld is always handy.
The Death Jester is IMO a total waste. His shrieker cannon wont do much good in a squad like this. If you're more than 6" away from your opponent after your move it's better to FoF to get into cc than take pot-shots at a squad and stay in the open to get slaughtered later. If you're within charge-range you wont do much damage against well armoured opponents with his cannon and you will slaughter lightly armoured foes in cc anyways, which makes the cannon redundant. But he's the cheapest of the three characters, Ill give him that.
Equipping the squad
The troupe can have two fusion pistols, and they are quite pricey. I would say don't take them. I don't see a use for them. Actually I even think they are contraproductive since they may tempt you to use them on a tank. Yep, that's right, with a unit as expensive and fragile as this I would never shoot at a tank and then stand there in the open getting shot up in the following turn. It's much better to charge into cc, use FoF to get out of LOS or at least FoF to put som distance between you and the opponent to force him make tests against Veil of tears. I wouldn't take them against infantry either. Since you have to be within charge range to use them, and then you have a bunch of rending attacks. Better to save the points IMO.
And now for the most exciting part. The harlequins kiss.. Just think about it, having a full 10 man troupe charging in with 4 rending attacks each, the devastation, the look on your opponents face when you totally wipe a 10 man tactical squad in one blow without him getting to strike back..
Actually, I think his look would be kind of pleased. You just traded your 270 point uber-cc squad against a 180 point marine squad. If he has been smart there wont be another squad close enough to make a massacre move into, and even if there is, the dices might fail you so assume the worst.
So, what am I saying with this? You want to finish him off in his own turn. Or even better, leave him with one or two marines left and make a hit & run move. That move plus your own move plus FoF will make sure you get to assault another fresh squad of his, with the added bonus of furious assault. The two remaining marines can you easily blast away with your pathfinders/falcon/vyper/whatever.
I've done some maths on how many harlequin kisses to take in a squad of nine including a Troupe Leader with power weapon. Somewhere around 4-5 kisses should do it. That would give you 2-3 rending hits and a total of 6-7 unsaved wounds on the charge against MEQ's. I will probably use four, to have a greater chance of getting the hit & run move. Depending on how many foes there are left in his cc-phase I might not even use their kisses, but instead only their base attacks.
This also makes it easier and cheaper to collect a troupe since I don't have to buy more blisters to get a lot of kisses.
At first I was planning on putting a Farseer with the troupe to fortune them. But I'm not so sure about that anymore. Sure, fortuning a squad with 5++ saves are great. But instead of relying on saves I think the key to use harlequins are to use their speed to keep them locked in combat where they can't get shot.
With a Farseer they would keep FoF but lose both "ignore cover when moving" and hit & run. Since the Farseer is an IC they would at least have the USR move through cover, so that's not a major loss. But losing hit & run, that's where their major speed-loss are. The reason are, your opponent will fear your harlequins and try to keep his squads as far away from them as possible so he can shoot at them after they are done in combat. But making a hit & run move followed by your own move, FoF and then assault move will make that very hard for him to do.
I'm thinking that if you are about to put a Farseer with them, you might aswell take more kisses since you can't use hit & run anyways.
When taking a harlequin troupe dont spend to much on redundant/useless upgrades or characters.
Use them wisely, don't throw them away into one of your opponents suicide squads so they will get shot up the next round.
Harlequins kisses are great, but taking to many might end up being great for your opponent.
If they do end up in the open, have another fast squad charging one of his nearby squads to block LOS to the troupe.
Always plan your whole move/charge move for this turn and the following before you even move them.
Charging a lone enemy squad might give you more speed towards the rest of his army."