Siam Hann Tourney Army - 1000 Points - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
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    well the bright lances on the vypers is kinda counter productive. the main problem with vypers aside from durability is there low BS. with the low BS and one shot you miss half the time and then you need to roll armor pen and see what damage you do. if you have the bright lance vypers working in pairs you have a much better kill ratio per turn. if you want them to be tank busters by them selves equip with scatter lazers as strength 6 in the side or rear of most tanks has a good chance of penetrating the armor. another option is to have them use two shuriken cannons to pop the tanks as I seem to remember them having str 6 as well and with six shots you should eb able to pop the tanks with that as well. downside to this is that the range is shortened.

    I have to disagree with Pandora on the upgrades he chose for the vypers as this invest alot of points in a very weak unit. even with the upgrades it still woefully weak. if you want a good upgrade go with CTM and pop out of cover. if they get too close run away.

    might want to use six jetbikes and two of them upgraded to shuriken cannons. this seems to be the standard unit when using jet bikes in MSN. you use the full range of the shuriken cannons and pop out of cover there as well. the point cost of the jet bikes makes them harder to use in other areas.


    other then that looks good.


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  3. #2
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Cheers guys, my thoughts:

    Re the Vypers:
    I was thinking along the same lines as Joe- when I have used them with my Ulthwe I found if you buy all the extras it doubles the price but does not double the durability, therefore take 2 and dont get extras

    (the same goes for CTM, with the points cost per figure, 4 CTMs= almost 4 bikes)

    Re the Bright lance Vypers Joe- they will operate as a piar - the reason I have split them into 2 is it protects them against incoming fire (all hits only apply to one) and on the chance (absurd I know) that I hit with the first bright lance and take out my targe, the second can target something else, but I do feel I am short of anti tank stuff, just not happy with Str6 tank hunters, I am considering ditching one of the star cannon Vypers and getting another Bright lance, or ditching one of the troop squads (did some questioning of GW on composition points and this bodes well) to facilitate more vypers with bright lances/bikes or possibly even hawks - what do you think?

    Pandora - I know what you mean about the chief, but trying to keep away from my ultwe roots and keep the army fluffy and different from standard area so the HQ will stay as is for the 1000 points list (in 1500 a farseer and warlocks get added)

    You both seem to like the shuriken cannon on a bike idea - I have never used it so I wopuld bow to your experiance, the reasons I didnt do it are:
    1 cost - it means you are payign 50points for a bike - may as well get a vyper
    2 effectiveness - never been impressed with the effectiveness of shuriken cannon, probably due to the fact that most of my opponents play marines, CSM or necrons who all have saves that laff them off, but this will be true for a conflict tourney by and large
    3.usage: adding shuriken Cannon makes one inclined to think the unit should stay at the back and do the fake CTM trick - move out - shoot move back, but that means you are using 3 bikes for one shurken Cannon - effectively 125 points for 3 shots which if they all hit (and they wont, and all wounded (which they wont) the opponent would save 2 out of 3 on average.

    I sont want to devolve into 'How to use jet bikes' cos that inevitably goes into a 'jetbikes are pants' discusion, but in short I am going to get them close enough to shoot with the Shuriken cats (the fact that they are twin linked means they should mostly hit (9 out of 12 on average) and then pull back out of charge range/rapid fire range with the booster move, using hit and run when it can be supported by for example the storm squads
    Your thoughts on the Shuriken cannon issue would be greatly appreciated, as they would be on the dropping of the second troop choice
    Ta
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    I think naudhu fireheart should replace a vyper, he isn't to hard to convert and he is a brilliant unit.

  5. #4
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    411 (x8)

    Nice thought - not usable in tourneys though
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    I would go for 6 single Vypers and a Wraithlord to support your Guardians. Wave Serpents aren't really worthwhile for transporting guardians and you don't really want to be assaulting with Saim-Hann.

    I would go for something roughly like this

    HQ
    Farseer w/Guide

    Troops
    2x20 Guardian Defenders, Warlock w/Conceal, S.Spear

    FA
    6x1 Vypers w/Starcannon

    Heavy
    1x3 D-Cannons

    Your Defenders can FoF up the board making them quite fast. Max number of Guardians makes Conceal worthwhile and Guide lets you reroll quite a lot of misses on either the Shuricats or D-Cannons. 3+ save armies will hate the D-Cannon and Starcannons. Horde armies will hate the Mass Shuricats.

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    Personally for all the reason you mentioned I do not like jetbikes. I think they are way over priced for there abilities. any way I have seen to look at it there are better ways to spend your points. When going up against marines like units you will be unable to get out of range leaving you open to counter attack. they may not be able to rapid fire you but with the low numbers usually in a jet bike squadron they will allmost allways hurt you more then you hurt them.

    if you look at the cost of a jet bike within the eldar army you might as well go vyper squadron as vypers can do all that jet bikes can do only better. *Sigh* if the jet bikes were like 25 or so point could take better/more upgrades or had better standard weponry they might be worth it. When comparing the shiricats to the standard weapons of other armies they fall short in many areas. and making them twin linked only covers the other disability eldar has with the low standard BS stat.

    I have to agree with Savant. Go all vypers or if you really want just one of the jet bike squadrons. people seem to find all vyper armies to be rather cheesey so this might be a good reason to add the jetbikes. be careful how many star cannons you use as this may lower your (forgot what its called in a tourney but its essentially where your oppenent calls cheese on you and you loose points).

    As I play a fairly shooty army i used my heavy support for some dark reapers and scouts in the troop choices in most of my saim hann army builds. but thats just me. for tank hunting? *Shrugs* go with ether some wave serpents if you can afford them but not likley with the point cost or go with a falcon. Id shy away from wraithlords as they are universally considered cheese. God I hate that term.

    I understand what you mean with the CTM costing too much. It does make the unit much more expensive but if you going to add an upgrade to it at all then I'd use that one and only that one. I justify it like this. it gives me more versatility one where my vyper can be by allowing me to be out of range (behind cover) in more places. as you would never have one out in the open for fear of lascannon fire and the like this woudl give it some more options on where you could have it snipe from. be carefull when not using CTM for counter attacks from ether the unit you hit or other units that now have LOS to the vyper.

    most verteren Saim Hann players who dont cheese out have alot of problems with the durability of this army. it take alot fo skill and patience to use this kind fo army just as a warning. but you will easily be able to out manuever any army including the zippy dark eldar. well hope it all works out for you.

  8. #7
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    ctm is a must. you cannot play saim hann without ctm.

  9. #8
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    411 (x8)

    Joe- I agree with most if not all of your points, I guess the point is I want style over substance, don't mind losing as long as it looks good. This is why the bikes are in the list (just dont feel right playing Siam Hann without them.

    With the ctm - i am with you all the way - having played ulthwe for the last 20 years (well they were Yiriels Eldich raiders/Yiriels personal company in 1st ed but hey, it was the same figs) I have had a litle experiance, the choice is usualy nothing, CTM or SS and Holo shield, I go with the first 2 every time, the CTM only works if you have room, range, fire arcs and cover, sonce even if you do have these you dont have enough of them for all the vehicles in Siam Hann army so by and large it is an expensive waste, in 1000 points the points ccan be better spent elsewhere

    In your list the D-Cannon and Farseer are a bit too Ulthwe for me, I definatley want to go with the Wild rider Chief (having converted a model already - it would be a waste not to)

    Re the wraith lord I agree entirely - I find they also take a lot of the enjoyment away - against a bad player he will rampage, against a good player he will be expecting wraithlords in an eldar army and be tooled appropriately

    I have considered the following - ditching one of the troops squads and adding: small unit of Hawks with an exarch (web of skulls and Sustained assult) - I know it aint the most lethal aspect warrior set but the figures look exceptional if you paint them well, Adding up to 2 more vypers with probably bright lances (then deploying 5 units of vypers, all single bright lances except for a unit of 2 with star cannon, and maybe adding more bikes

    Please bear in mind I am going for fluff, style and how the figs look more thanpower gaming
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  10. #9
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    You want fluff and style? Go with bikes, vypers, and more bikes. Now that's a true Saim-hann army. Think of it like this.... the Saim-hann aren't stand up fighters, they don't meet their opponents toe-to-toe and duke it out. They are raiders, pirates, and joyriders. I envision them as tearing about the countryside on their bikes, raiding the occasional settlement to get more supplies and gas, getting into a few hit-and-go scraps with the local police, etc...

    I don't think of them as meeting the Dark Angel Chapter to met out their vengeance and cleanse the universe of the invading humans.

    So.... go with your heart. If you want to field bikes, field them, have fun, have great looking models that die valiantly. That's the best reason to play Saim-hann.

    P.S. I've got a Saim-hann army in the making.... 22 bikes + 3 vypers.
    Jack of all trades, master of none.

  11. #10
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    411 (x8)

    Zeb, I agree wholeheartedly - I have had some success with 3 way conflict battles at 40K in 40 mins against necrons and death guard, using 5 bikes, wild rider chief and 2 vypers with star cannon, the point is not to engage, deploy well back and blat away with the vypers, even the bikes had some joy, move up to 12" from a squad, shoot and move back 6 " this means those rapid fire weapons can shoot once only and they sometimes chase you round the table, dragging them away from the objective, the fact that the weapons are TL and that the riders have comparable toughness and armour saves means that on a one for one basis you outshoot them, admittedly they tend not to be on a one to one basis,l but the star cannon soon level that, then all you got to do is time your run for the centre, worked quite well, didnt engage in close combat, gave the others a damn good kicking and won the game (not really bothered about winning anyway biut it is nice
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


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