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Recently my friend and I allied our Eldar armies together in a 2000pt game and were pounded into the dust. Our opponents were using a Space Marine and Imperial Guard allience (we sometimes do this to keep things interesting) and to be frank I was more then a little annoyed by their army selection:
HQ: Space Marine Captain and 9 man command squad in a Rhino
HQ: Imperial Guard Command Section in a Chimera tooled with special weapons + a heavy weapons squad
Troops: x2 Units of 5 Space Marine Scouts
Elites: 3 Ratlings
Elites: Terminator Assault Squad
Elites: Ancient Dreadnaught
Fast Attack: x2 Hell Hounds
Heavy Support: x2 Leman Russ Battle Tanks
Heavy Support: Leman Russ Demolisher
What do people think of this list?
We'd taken an Eldar Army with wide range of troops and mix of heavy and elites but with only 19 models in the enemies army actually not in a tank or in fact a vehicle the majority of our army couldn't hurt the enemy!
We'd had no prior warning of the type of army we'd be facing and had no way enough tank busting equipment we'd need to crack an army like this.
Do people think this army is unsportsmen like? Do you design armies to pound your friends into the dust and not give a thought to designing a fair army?
Should I broach this topic with my friends at the risk of offending them?
How do YOU handle opponents that choose beardy armies?
I don't play the one player around here that does that. And if I ever catch someone customizing thier list because they saw me unpacking my army I will call them on it and ask to see thier revisions. If I think I can still take them I might play, otherwise I have no qualms about saying "no thanks, I'll play that other fellow instead.".
A friend shouldn't be trying to do that to you. Although once might be fine if they owned up to it afterwards and said they were tired of always losing to you and wanted to see if ANY list could ever beat you, then maybe. Just tell your friends that the game wasn't fun at all.
If they don't seem to care (why are they friends again?) then your choices of response after that are probably limited to how many other opponents you can find. Here in the big city there are quite a few venues. If I think someone is a knob I really don't ever have to play them.
The friends I usually play with tend to all use tourney lists. Although if they are trying out something new, and it's plain to see that in the scenario we are about to play they will massacre me (or vice versa) we usually change up the lists a little to find some balance.
Last edited by medic_4077; November 29th, 2006 at 18:56.
War Record Since Sept 2005
Old Codex 48-20-9 Dark Eldar
New Codex 1-0-0 Dark Eldar
That's a pretty wanker-y army IMHO :/ Totally min-mix.
I'd mention to him (them?) that you didn't find the game very fun and that you'd perfer to play games with more balanced forces. Hopefully they will be sympathetic and open to making better games. If he just wants to win...well, there are other players out there.
I'm not sure the force was customized to beat you...lots of armies would have problems with an all-vehicle force like that, and lots of people would not have much fun playing against it.
I agree with both Medic and Zagref.
Obviously a tournament environment shifts things a bit, but basically we play this game to have fun. I can have fun losing, but not being crushed.
If you ever want to play in a tournament it is best to play most of your games using all-comers styled lists for the sake of practice. However, in friendly games I don't see why you can't play a list that is tailored for your opponent. It isn't like Space Marines (or whomever) get dropped into battle without having some idea of who they are fighting.
I think the most grevious error here is the mixing codex's on a single force organization chart.
I'm sure you would have had far less issues if both opponents had come to play with separate 1000 point legal army lists.
However, I imagine that a "heavy" list could still be made with legal but separate org charts. If so, you'd just have to chalk it up to bad luck and do your best. If it becomes a problem you can also ask for a rematch but limit each org chart to a single Heavy choice.
We play for fun, so talk to your friends and clear things up.
[COLOR=DarkRedI got my tournament t-shirts at mathhammer.net[/COLOR]
The way my friends and I play we tailor our armies to which ever army we're fighting against. As we all do that it's all fair. Occasionally we get a few rather unbalanced battles but sometimes that's just what happens.
We don't follow tourney rules for the simple reason we don't ever expect to go to one. We don't have the desire to either.
In my mind the biggest issue you had in this group game was having each side use one org chart, when everyone should have been using their own. On the other hand, how could you face Imperial Guard and not bring tank busting weapons?
May your aim be true, and your targets plentiful.
A fully mechanized list isn't anything to complain about, if your list doesn't include enough tank busting to handle them on at least a minor level and you plan to go to a tourny, change the way you build lists. I've played and played against fully mechanized lists, they're just something you have to learn to fight.
That said, did you all play a mission or was this just a "kill the opponent" type of game because that makes a large difference, always play a mission.
Everything I have told you, even this, is a lie.
Me and my friends who plays 40k with me all like to tailor their list against mine. I dont find it a bother, not a bit, on the contrary I feel as if it's a test to see how I manage around with my army at the disadvantage... as to all of our games that we played, and thus I've learned the importance of priority and movement. Tailored list does not give your opponent a gaurantee win, if you think you have already lost then there is no point in playing. Take Tyranid for example, if someone decides to play a pure Godzilla army in a 1,000 points game (2 Tyrant, 3 Carnifex, Leaping Swarm) without you knowing it, chances are you wont bring enough AP2 weapons to take it down. It's all about taking risks (another example would be facing a full Imperial Guard Armoured Company army).. if you and your buddy each had 3-4 bright lance in the army and backed it up with a Farseer with Guide and Fortune.. I think your opponent friend would be the one asking for help now.
Anima Tactics - try it out!
All of my friends are out to get me in 40k. They all have lists that are specifically tailored to beat me, do they ever work? No not really, but thats another issue. I don't think this list should have caused you to much trouble. Since you knew you were going up against marines, star cannons are a must, plus since you also knew guard was going to be there a few bright lances would have been nice to deal with trouble some Russes. I always build a balanced list since, even if I know I'm going up against say, Orks, a lascannon would never kill me to tack on somewhere. If you didn't have a fun time playing them, tell them about it and try t work it out though.
If you want to beat that list ( which really should not be to hard) I would recommend an Aurtach (spelling?) on a jet bike, the turbo boast will help keep you alive, and allow you to circle around the tanks getting to the rear armor. I'm not so sure as to how good the new shinning spears are ( haven't had a chance to sit down and read the new dex... only got to skim it) assuming they received a decent boast a small unit of them wold probably be some what useful as well, circle around and charge the rear armor or shoot, the rear armor of the tanks. When your moving though keep in mind that the turbo boast save will only do so much for you, your best ally is cover, remain unseen as much as possible. Use their tanks to their disadvantage, force them to move ever turn to get a clear shot, this will force them to either A) scatter more, not shoot at all if you play your cards right. Your best ally is well, not being seen, but also your mobility, a fire prism or two and/or a few falcons will work wonders * really i think you should always have two falcons, they are so good all around arm one with a star cannon, and one with a bright lance and you should be good to go. ( again I haven't really read the new dex to thoroughly so I'm doing the best i can) If guardians or Dire Avengers can be mounted in wave serpents that will also add to your overall mobility and pure destructive power.
Strength Punishes, Speed Kills
Rheagar fought nobly
Rheagar fought valiantly
Rheagar fought honorably
And Rheagar died.
The list is also illegal, if they only used three ratlings. You need five in order for it to be a full squad.
"When one man dies it is a tragedy. When thousands die its a statistic."
This really isn't the place to post this question.