Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Well, I'm not a routine poster really here, but I thought I'd drop this line ...
Last night my buddies and I had our regular gaming night, and due to a person no-showing it ended up 3,000 points of Necron in two force org charts w/ one player v. 1,500 of nid from me and 1,500 of guard from a buddy (normally a 2v2, 1500 each).
He had a metric crap ton of destroyers and heavy destroyers ... specifically, 17 destroyers in 5 squads (2x4, 3x3) and 12 heavy destroyers in 4 squads of 3 each. He kept them roughly together, and used a d-lord to keep a rez orb on them .... we had plenty of firepower, as I go for shootier nids with about a dozen warriors in 4 squads of 3 sporting deathspitters/barbed strangler, shooty fexes with bs/vc (and their S10 VC prevents WBB on destroyers if they don't have a rez orb), etc.
I used raveners for about the first time, and admittedly he didn't really know what to expect. I fielded 2 squads of 2 (rending claws/sycthing talons), and 1 squad of 1 (rending claws/scything talons), and buried them amidst a sea of spinegaunts, the dozen warriors, 2xfex/3xzoa/tyrant ... I didn't really intend to do MUCH with them ... just have scoring units hidden away, or snag table quarters late, or support the eventual guant kamikaze charge. Nevertheless, I'm opportunistic, and came across quite the opportunity ...
Using cover and blocked LOS to get up close, I was able to charge his destroyer lord + 1 remaining destroyer with the lone ravener, was able to charge another squad of 3 destroyers with the first squad of 2 raveners, and eventually managed to plow into his heavy destroyer band with my other squad of 2 raveners. There was just enough cover that, with theiir movement, I was able to keep them pretty much from taking any ranged fire, and he had his hands full mowing down gaunts and guard.
I lost 0 raveners. I took 1 wound on the ravener who attacked the lord ... he was attached to a unit of 4 destroyers, 3 of whom died to shooting right before I assaulted. Gaze of Flame on the lord took off my assault attack, but 4 rending hits managed to rend 3 (a little luck there), downing the destroyer and plopping 2 wounds on the lord, who only managed to wound the ravener once in return.
The pair of raveners in the destroyers had 10 attacks on the assault, rended 3 of them wiping the squad, and consolidated into a nearby 2nd squad (gotta love the Necron phalanx), which it dusted off by a couple turns later.
All the guard las-cannons potted his monoliths, btw, which he deepstruck. They did severe damage to the gaunts and the warriors and the guard by firing off their flux arcs, but only so much you can do before massed guard las-cannon fire finds a hole.
The heavy destroyer raveners were just as useful, getting 3 rends on the assault to down one squad, consolidating into a 2nd, killing it in 1 turn due to breaking them and then assaulting a 3rd squad (which we never got to see the result of, due to out of time / clear winners).
The final effect was that once the raveners got stuck in, and were downing lords and such, he got skittish of them and backed off to avoid the rending, spreading his destroyers away from his remaining orbs to keep from getting further consolidated into, and so taking them out of range for WBB rolls.
It was a VERY close fight ... 40 warriors, 10 immortals, 2 deepstruck monoliths, 12 heavy d's (before engaged) and 17 destroyers will really put a dent in a squishy guard/'nid army. The raveners, especially when they all "got in," swung the day.
This isn't to say they'll work this way again ... I'm sure he'll focus a metric ****-ton of fire on them next time (not that I mind a few relatively cheap units taking fire instead of my fexes and such) ... but damn are they useful against small heavy weapons units when they get in ... 10 rending attacks sure does a number on an assault, and that's for 80 points.
I personally find them superior to genestealers. They're faster (marginally), cheaper when you think about it ... a 4 attack model with 2 wounds and better speed and just as rending for 40 points vs. 2 completely non-upgraded genestealers for 36 points seems a wash at best, and more in favor of the ravener. Plus, the rav makes a scoring unit for just those 40 if you wish, whereas you need I guess at least 5 genestealers - a much juicier target, and much more difficult to keep covered/alive/etc.
Just sharing my $.02, it was a good night and a good tough win, thanks in large part to the ravs. PS - warriors so need cover ... I was fielding 96 point units w/ enhanced sense, toxin sacs, extended carapace, 1x barbed strangler 2x deathspitter ... and I really placed them poorly where they had little to no cover early on ... I lost 8 of 12 to destroyer fire in about 1 turn. One squad member w/ a strangler managed to just luck out and was shielded by the tyrant (dumb luck), and the 3 that never took fire were (surprise surprise) covered up most of the game.
Really impressed by deathspitters as well, never used 'em and never used warriors much, but dropping S6 blasts on the warrior phalanx was very gratifying.
Congrats on the win! I hate destroyers of both varieties, they are really the most painful necron unit out there... Oh, and the flux arc can REALLY hurt, especially against us nids I think because we're always splitting our units up into lots of little squads...
And I completely agree, raveners are awesome! Getting the rend in as early as a hormie-charge is truly effective (or, with any gaunts). I find my hormies really need a little extra punch, or else they tend to die off before they can even obstruct firing lanes!
Plus, the new models are swwweet!
I think raveners are definitely worth their points, as a tiny unit with both crazy cc-ability and being a scoring unit, too, they are generally overlooked. But, you have to be careful with them because if the opponent DOES notce them, they can be toasted in a heartbeat with small-arms... :cry:
It's hard to compare them with genestealer's though. That's like comparing a ninja-star to a katana... sure, you can surprise the hell out of a few enemies with some quick ninja-stars to the face, but when it gets ugly you're really going to want something more substantial. You can get 2 gene's w/ carapace for the price of 1 ravener, it's basicaly the same thing except a little less speed and a little more durability. At least this is just me talking, I think 4+ saves are WAY better than 5's, it's the difference between a bolter and a heavy bolter.
But yes, Raveners kick butt. I think they work best as a few small kamikaze units, up there with the gaunts, with plenty of backup on the way in the form of gene's and warriors.:yes:
Last edited by Abraham Lincoln; December 2nd, 2006 at 17:48.
Tyranids: 2500 pts
Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
Witch Hunters: 1000 pts
Raveners are neat. That's an interesting point comparing them to Genestealers though. If you compare like numbers of points... 80 points gets you two Raveners, which can be as separate units, or five vanilla Genestealers (not enough for a unit). So you get 8 attacks versus 10, 4 wounds versus 5. But being able to field them as 2 separate units is obviously a big advantage. And they move that much faster, too.
I would say the heart of my point rests upon play-style also. In a melee-oriented army, focused on speed and power in close combat, I'd almost say Raveners are NOT best. That's when you want a solid core of genesteales supported by fast hormies and such to get them tied up quickly and soak up some fire otherwise directed at the stealers.
The raveners seem best suited to a big time shooty army. You're going to be filling your troop slots with inexpensive spinegaunts (or at least I do, with 60 spinegaunts fer cheap in 6 squads), and spending points on genestalers when they're going to be mostly unsupported due to your shooty warriors and fexes and tyrant and zoanthropes is probably not a good idea. BUT in a 1,500 point list I literally fill every bit of the force org chart - tyrant, hq warrior squad, 3 elite warrior squad, 6 10-man spinegaunt squad, 2 fexes + 3 zoanthropes in heavy ... adding the 5 raveners in 3 squads gives me that surprise punch my "OMG SHOOTY NID" opponent isn't expecting, gives me some extra scorers, and provides me with comparable "shock" value to a small genestealer squad or two without requiring the same points investment or force organization investment (even more targets to shoot at), and being faster to boot.
Think about it ... if you're in a shooty Nid army, and you want to screw your opponent up as much as possible target wise, and do as much as you can to keep him from firing at your key guns, would you rather have less gaunt units and some genestealers that probably aren't quick enough to get around GOOD cover and into combat in one turn against a smart opponent, or would you rather have the full 6 gaunt units AND 3 more scoring fast attack units that can rapidly blitz in and punish those destroyers sneaking up ahead of the warrior core to try and take out your guns?
In short, I suppose it relates to the army type. I'm shooty as hell - 8 S6 deathspitters, 4 S4 barbed stranglers, 1 S5 barbed strangler, 2 S8 barbed stranglers, 1 S8 venom cannon, 2 S10 venom cannons, 3 zoanthrope warp blasts, and of course the spinegaunts. To get at me, he's gotta bring his destroyers up ahead of his warriors, or he's going to get phased out by the mass of pie plates ... and if I'm smart, that's when I spring the raveners into his fragile small destroyer squads' faces.
Good choice on the Warriors squads with Barbed Strangler. I begin to see Venom Cannon as a waste of weapon slot for Warriors.
As Gunfexes fire on heavy vehicles, Dakkafexes fire on AV10 vehicles, the Warriors are best used to fire at enemy fire support teams.
For this role, the Strangler is clearly superior, while the S7 Venom Cannon isnt really impressive, anyway.
Is it me or does any other necron player get annoyed when they see people saying "Necrons eat souls". How is that even possible as souls are part of the warp and necrons want nothing to do with it? Eh probaly me just me being picky.
Tyranid Hivemind Member
I don't bother with Dakkafexxes, so I'd have to agree w/ the BS>VC on warriors comment. I play primarily against heavily armed guard, necron and marines, on a 6x6 table, and the dakkafexxes would never bring their guns to bear. With 3 zoanthropes, 2 VC+BS fexes and a VC+BS tyrant, plus 8 of the 12 warriors wielding s6 deathspitters, I don't really need more anti-vehicle. With all those 3+ armor saves on the necron and marines, though, pie plates win the day somethin' fierce. I'm tossing 7 strangler plates, up to 3 zoanthrope blasts, and 8 deathspitter blasts at full bore. Statistically, I'm not really in need of the firepower vs. vehicles, and vs. infantry I can either hit ~6-8 models with the barbed strangler, wounding 3-4 and almost guaranteeing to down at least one despite the 3-up saves, OR I've got 2 venom cannon shots, one of which will hit and likely wound, forcing only 1 3+ save.
You should see what happens to a phalanx of 20 warriors and 10 immortals when 7 barbed strangler pie plates, 8 deathspitter blasts and 3 zoanthrope warp blasts land on them in one turn. Plus my Zoas are a little pricey and kitted w/ psychic scream as well, so every one of those strangler shots is forcing LD tests. Suffice to say the necron player in our regular group hates me.
Last edited by MVBrandt; December 3rd, 2006 at 08:29.
I love raveners because of 1 very special event.
i charged a 10 man strong squad of of termies with a single ravener. the termies were in an odd formation from the drop pod, so i was able to position my ravener on the tail end of the unit. 2 rend from the rav mean 2 termies went down, and the remaining PW fists missed. the termies miraculously broke and were chased down, around 300 points of guys from 1 ravener, 1 in a million chance but the smurf had to do a lap around the Gw clutching his head before he could continue playing.
ravners are SOOO nice to have in an army. They can race together with hormagants to deal with certain opponents. their ability to move 19-24 inches, including the charge, make them really god one they have reached enemy lines.
I once cleaned up all the infantry and battlesuits with these guys out of an Tau army (not the most incredible feat, but still really cool ), because they where able to win each fight they where in, kill everyone in persue, and them " massacre-move" into the next unit.
btw, the Tau didn't shoot at the raveners, because of my menacing flying HT and the very sight of about 20 genestealers and 20 hormagants to make him think.
A glorious day for the snakelike bugs
Tyranids Win / Draw /Lost 
Daemon Hunters Win / Draw / Lost 
Going to see the same squad lay-out in action tonight against a field of opponents that has now seen what they can do, and may have more respect for them. Will have to be more careful with cover and fields of fire. Tonight's opponents may be Black Templars + Blood Angels + Demon Hunters so perhaps they'll hang back and keep the terminators and death company honest as they think about charging my fexes or tyrant or zoas.