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If a Stealth Squad is the closed target to the opponent and your IC (say a Shas'el) is behind. Can your opponent ignore the stealth squad (as it mentions can be done) to target the IC or is he still protected?
I asked the same question regarding Harleqins and Veil of Tears with an IC... The answer was that no you cannot target the IC... I presume the same answer will come to this
Veil of Tears post can be found Here
Well, you can ignore stealths for the purpose "target priority" and the protection afforded to ICs in this manner is something different, so no. Smae way Markerlights, which let you void target priority, don't let you target ICs.
I gotta disagree with you Promethius. I'm very certain that stealth teams do not count as the closest unit when working out target priority or shooting at Independent Characters. The exact wording in the FAQ is "but enemy units can always choose to ignore the Stealth team when determining the closest enemy unit."
Since Independent Characters can only be shot at 'if they are the closest enemy unit' and stealths 'can always be ignored when determining the closest emeny unit' then no, they provide no benefit to your commander. I'm sure many of us have had this thought.
"closest enemy unit" versus "ignores target priority" is the key phraseology. If it says "ingored as the closest unit" or similar, then you can shoot the IC. If it says "ignored for target priority" then you can't, as target priority is a different rule.
However the FAQ doesn't say anything about FAQs in that regard, so I wonder if you are talking about the codex. I certainly thought the codex said "target priority," but I don't have it in my hands, so I don't know for sure.
Can someone who actually has it with them plese check the wording?
Now the rules for IC's state the IC cannot be choosen as TARGETS if another unit is closer to the firer, it says absolutley nothing about if the unit can be shot, seen or is invivsible, behind cover, wearing a nice flowery dress or is depressed at life's relentless grind etc, he cannot be targeted if another unit is nearer.
the only exception to this is things like vindicares or farseers with mindwar who have a specific rule that allows any thing to be targeted regardless of IC status etc.
The rule for stealths only says the firing unit does not have to take a priority test if another TARGET presents itself, but IC's cannot be targeted if the stealths are nearer if something cannot be targeted it is not a target, this is a totaly legal and totaly uncheesy rule, it follows all the rules as written to the letter, is NOT rules lawyering and their is no unclearness about it.
The stealth rules say nothing about ignoring IC status so the IC rule is still in effect and if the stealths are the closest to the firing unit the commander is safe, effectively if the unit choose to ignore the stealths and no other unit apart from the commander was in range they would have no option to shoot
Last edited by Rikimaru; December 6th, 2006 at 22:57.
I only have a minute cauz Im off to class, but just to reitterate,
Independent Characters can only be shot at "if they are the closest enemy unit" (4th edition rulebook) and stealths "can always be ignored when determining the closest emeny unit" (GW Tau FAQ)
These are direct quotes.
Sorry but my codex does not say that stealths can be ignored when determining the closest unit, it says on page 27 under stealth field generator they may choose to ignore models equipped with generators and fire on a more distant TARGET, plus it says they do not have to take a target priority test if this target is the next closest unit, please note the repeated use of the word target, not unit or model but target that is vital.
Also it is only refering to priority tests if the unit is the closest targget, it does not state that rules like IC rules are negated, all it says is they can ignore stealths to target another more distant unit.
IC rules on page 51 of the 40K rule book say that an IC can only be choosen as TARGETS if they are the closest unit (again please note the word target), now it is totaly irrelevent if the firing unit ignores the stealths, because they are still the closest unit to the firing unit, this does not change even if they are ignored, they do not cease to exist if I chose to ignore that brick wall does it cease to impede my forward momentum when I try to run through it? no, just because the stealths are ignored it does not change the fact that they are the closest unit to the firing unit thus the IC commander is not the closest unit and cannot be choosen as a target.
By the way the most recent FAQ says absolutely nothing about stealths so which FAQ are you using? if it precedes the new codex its redundant
Yeah, that must have been in the old FAQ, because I remember reading it, but I don't see it in the new one.
So yeah, stealths shield ICs.
Hmm, oh they DID change the FAQ didnt they?
Hold on lemmie read all this new FAQ....
Ok lemmie get this straight... the codex says you can 'choose to ignore units wholly equipped with stealth field generators and fire on a more distant target' and the big book says you 'can only choose an IC as a target if its the closest target to the firer.'
Man the old FAQ was much more cut and dry in this area!
I understand your argument now Riki, but that line in the book is slightly different that you've quoted, at least in my big book. It says IC's can only be chosen as targets if they are the closest target (not unit). We've already established that you can choose to ignore Stealth Teams and fire on the next closest target, right?
In other words, if you choose to ignore the stealth team as the closest target, the next in line is treated as the closest target.
This question was adressed in the last codex, and I doubt it was ment to change in the new.
Once again, that line you quoted is a bit off. It doesn't state the closest unit, it says the closest target, and thats important because the firer can choose to ignore the stealths (as a tagret) and fire at the next closest target without testing for target priority.
So all units are targets, and all targets and targets, but if its equipped with stealth generators you can always choose to ignore it when choosing a target. At least what I believe.
I fall on riki's side.
Even though you can ignore the stealths, that does not mean they are not there. They are still the closest target, and therefore the IC is not the closest target. The IC would be the closest, not-ignored target.
Good discussion, though.
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