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Wanted to see how people would think this would do. My idea is to base a Tyranid army around Tyranid warrior broods. Basically instead of going for carnifexs and the like. I load up on Warriors who are shooty. Overall the army is a mid to shoot range shooty army. With 3 elite slots of warriors with deathspitters, and 1 venom cannon in each unit. I want to maximize template hits, but want to stay away from the barbed strangler unless i have too.
In addition, i'm debating not even running a hive tyrant. Basically there would be at least 4 squads of Warriors (1 as HQ) then the rest of the army is Guants with fleshboarers. This way the guants are always in synapse range so they pass the leadership checks, and the guants screen for the warriors.
I know the army has huge holes which i'm hoping to fill with Raveners who will be targeting tanks and hoping to assault them with rending claws. The idea is to continue to pressure and constantly wear down other armies troops with a high volume of Strength 4 fire. I figure with no carnifexs and no hive tyrants it allows more points for warriors and Raveners.
Of course i'll probably run a Hive Tyrant at some points, but i'm figuring it would be kitted out with wings and close combat driven and go tank hunting.
Vs orks i see the army doing well as Nids are a even match vs orks, if i want i will probably have extra points and can even upgrade armor saves to add to survivability.
Vs marines and Eldar. i don't see a these army having enough shooting to wear down all the broods i plan on bring.
I figure the army brings a major weakness against necrons as the lack of guns that can cause instant death will mean they will more than likely get back up over and over again and eventually wear me out.
I also see guard giving me a run for my money as since guard armies are more than likely immobile i will have to come into range of the big guns and i lack a means to punch through armor 14.
Tau would be similar to guard however fire warriors would be the major threat here. Basically the battle suits would have to be customized to deal with my army, and Broad sides would probably get a round of shooting off at most. Hammerheads would be difficult to deal with as i would have to trap them and a smart Tau player could just move 24 away.
40K-Beakies(9-14-4),Guard(4-7-2),Orks(34-12-11). FANTASY-Dwarves(15-6-7),Beasts (14-14-1), Skaven (17-17-10) DoC (6-1-2). CYGNAR (28-15-1)
i was thinking about a list like this myself but i really cant afford it money wise. if you want more warriors give a few RC, ST and wings which become fast attack. that would be my unit of choice to harass flanks and side armour of none moving vehicles.
Sir we have a lock on the Hive tyrant.
NO! SHOOT THAT SPORE MINE! OH GOD, ITS GOING BACKWARDS!
if someone helps you, give them rep.
the problem with this strategy (and this is personal opinion here) is that warriors stink. Whatever role you want to put them in there are other creatures in the tyranid army that are better at that role, plus they're very fragile and can be shot to pieces very quickly by almost every army.
For example, you want them shooty: A carnifex has more forepower and a hive tyrant has more firepower and more accuracy.
You want them CC: Genestealers are faster and cheaper (rending warrior is a minimum of 20 points a pop)
The roles that warriors do fill nicely is skimmer hunters, in which case you really don't want to have a lot of them. Backup synapse, to help provide cover for gaunts, in which case you want them fairly cheap but able to keep up with the gaunts. Or they make a decent harassment units if you give them wings.
In total, while you could do a warrior-centric army with them at its core, I would advise against doing so as other units are better at almost any job you could use the warriors for)
I can see what you mean definitely. I was trying to make a Tyranid army that is slightly different and figured with the Warriors giving synapse having a decent amount of them to back guants would make the guants really nasty. However the points do seem to add up in order to make them more effective. Do you find Ravenors more helpful then Stealers? I really just don't like the Genestealers models and was trying to avoid them even though for starting out the army box seems to make a lot of sense.
40K-Beakies(9-14-4),Guard(4-7-2),Orks(34-12-11). FANTASY-Dwarves(15-6-7),Beasts (14-14-1), Skaven (17-17-10) DoC (6-1-2). CYGNAR (28-15-1)
How do you not like genestealers?! (kidding)
I've actually never used raveners, so I don't know about their effectiveness. (I started playing before ravenors existed and I love my genestealers too much to replace them with ravenors)
Oh, and I may have been slightly mistaken based off your origenal post regarding the warrior centric army. If you built an army that was nothing but gaunts and warriors, that could be a very interesting force. In a 2000 point match you could bring two squads of 6 leaping CC warriors (HQs), then three squads of deathspitter\VC warriors (5 deathspitters, 1 VC) (Elites) and then stick roughly 150 gaunts (of both the leaping and normal form) in front of them. That would be a very interesting swarm army. (to me at least)
If that's the type of army you're considering doing, I'd say while it would have a rough time with tank heavy forces (this could be dealt with by swapping in a gunfex for some of the gaunts) I can see it being a fairly competative army. Actually, if it didn't cost so much to get all those units I might consider trying it myself...
And then there are genestealers, with bald, oversized heads, different armor, hands not claws, feet not hooves, etc. It completely makes sence when you think about their fluff, since I guess most genestealers the tyranids have access to have been spawned through the use of humanoid reproductive systems, but still, sometimes I don't like them.
It is difficult to avoid them though. They are definitely the cheapest, most efficient source of rending the Tyranids have. Warriors are slightly more durable, but slower and they have fewer attacks in combat (point for point). Raveners on the other hand are faster and have more attacks than genestealers, but they can't take carapace so they are a LOT more fragile. But you can do it. In my experience, I find the trick is to blend leaping warriors and raveners. I'm building some flying warriors to add in too, so I'll let you know how that works out.
But if I were you I would invest in a couple battleforces, because they really are a sweet deal, and I would keep the genestealers because it is good to keep your options open.
Tyranids: 2500 pts
Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
Witch Hunters: 1000 pts
I know this should probably go in the trading area, but if anyone is interested in warriors, I have a bunch I want to get rid of.
It is a decent enough idea for an army, and one that I personally employ. I do, however, choose to go for a couple of the monstrous creatures for their heavier firepower, and I espouse stranglers over venom cannons where forced to choose one or the other.
I go with a tyrant and single guard (45 points for extra melee coverage *in case* and effectively double reinforced chitin = ftw), who forms the centerpoint of the army for out-synapse fall-back and good firepower, kitting him with a strangler and a venom cannon w/ toxin sacs ... s5 pie plate + s8x3 vc shots w/ enhanced senses = sex.
Warrior-wise, I've found that minimizing # of warriors and maximizing # of squads is what you really want to go for ... to wit, I utilize squads of 3 warriors with 2 deathspitters and a barbed strangler each. Mathematically, the stranglers are going to cause more wounds over the course of the battle to most armies thanks to the sheer size of a S4 pie plate, and when all is said and done I have 7 strangler pie plates being fired a turn, and you have no idea how much that demoralizes someone. Venom cannon shots are just incoming shots. Massive strangler pinning pie plates cause people to toss up their hands when the 5th or 6th in a turn lands on them. I field 3 elite warrior squads and 1 hq warrior squad of this set-up.
I field 60 spinegaunts ... cheap and effective, in 6 squads, which basically either tie up infantry if he ignores them, or waste tons of fire on cheap units if he tries to deal with them.
I DO field 5 raveners, in 3 squads (2/2/1) ... I find these more and more lethal ... 2 st/rc raveners charging field TWENTY rending attacks on the charge ... I've wiped entire squads of necron immortals on the assault with those before ... careful use and keeping them completely BEHIND cover (not in cover, behind it out of los of anything) until the right moment is critical, though, or else it's an easy set of quick points for even bolter fire.
Heavy support-wise, I use 2 vc/bs fexes bare bones (no extended carapace even), and stick them in cover in a good firing position on deployment, and leave them INTENTIONALLY out of synapse to get the +1 lurking cover save. I'd rather have a 4+ invulnerable woods save or 3+ invulnerable building save than waste points on extended carapace for a unit that is going to die even with a 2+ save if the opponent wants it dead. Think about it - it takes 4 las-cannon wounds to kill a carnifex w/ extended carapace out of cover. It takes 12 las-cannon wounds to kill a carnifex w/out extended carapace lurking in a building. No-brainer that unless you're on a wide open field w/out any cover (what are you doing on a wide open field w/out any cover as a tyranid, please tell me), or unless you're unwise with your placement, extended carapace is unnecessary and for 2 fexes costs the same as an entire gauntsquad or something similar.
I go with 3 zoanthropes, always, with warp blast ... and depending on the opponent outfit them with either psychic scream, synapse, or both. 3 anti-marine blasts or 3 anti-tank shots a turn when things get hairy and close are pretty critical, and having -3 leadership on gritty marines or necron, or especially on eldar/IG when the fighting gets close and personal is pretty useful ... also, -3 leadership combined with those 7 pin-testing barbed stranglers ... well ...
I've found that with 4th edition preventing "screening" and requiring only priority checks, and with the number of vehicles or high-leadership units I deal with routinely, that you can't really "screen" warriors with gaunts. Warriors are pretty fragile out of cover, so if you skimp on the bigger mega-shooty units for just warrior squads, you're going to be in some trouble I think. You can only field but so many warrior squads, and each squad can only have the 1 36" range weapon. A good opponent will realize how fragile the warriors really are, and will blow your synapse to hell in a hurry, leaving you with a big swarm of synapse-less gaunts to chew up at leisure. You'll be forced to either sit back in cover, where you won't get many shots off against a shooty army, or a melee army until it gets close enough to charge you (and against a melee-specific army gaunts may not really get it done, nor will shooty warriors), and where your gaunts won't be able to move up and tie things up b/c they'll be out of synapse, OR you'll be forced to leave cover and keep the warriors with the gaunts to get 'em close, and the myriad of AP5 and AP4 weaponry in 40k these days will just tear the living crap out of your warriors before you get close, resulting in (again) synapse-less gaunts milling about and wondering which table edge is closest.
Shooty 'nids are, IMO, actually *better* than melee nids, b/c you can get a TON of firepower and still have the ability to tie people up with spinegaunts and set them up for the close-range assault kill by a few raveners. Plus, all tyranids hold their own in melee when forced to it better than their common equivalents in OTHER shooty armies ... it's not like guardsmen, eldar, tau, etc. are all of: fearless, fleet and Initiative 4 like the average spinegaunt, nor do they get to reroll missed to-hit or to-wound rolls with shooting (yay spinefists/fleshborers). Finally perhaps, having the big shooty nids is vastly superior IMO to the vehicle nature of other armies ... one lucky lascannon can pot a landraider or disable it in one turn. It's going to take at least 4 lucky lascannons to do that to a carnifex or tyrant, and at least 2 to do it to even 1 warrior.
So, in short, shooty-nids ftw, good stuff and good idea ... but put some heavier firepower on the board ... and don't rely on raveners to take care of those tougher vehicles, b/c the smart opponent will just keep 'em well outta range and pod your warriors with 48" or even 36" fire, well outta range of anything you've really got to dent them. Raveners with rending claws CAN hurt vehicles, but their strength lies in charging from "outta ****in' nowhere" into some nasty super powerful enemy advance unit with 2+ saves or we'll be back rolls (read: terminators and immortals). The key, IMO, to shooty nids, is to pod his vehicles with the venom cannons and warp blasts, bury his rank-and-file infantry in mass barbed strangler fire, tie up his left-overs with swarms of cheap gaunts, and surprise the living crap out of his elite nasties with blitz charges from small ravener squads.
Last edited by MVBrandt; December 12th, 2006 at 20:57.
1) Warp Field (they always have it, you can't swap it out)
2) The power you HAVE to pick to field them
3) The optional "third" power that you don't have to take.
I should have clarified that I meant both in a mixed sense. Thank you for adding that / catching that. Against very shooty armies with lower base-leadership troops I often don't take as many psychic screams, but will take one or two zoas as synapse in case my tyrant/warriors take a crap-ton of fire ... typically, though, 12 warriors and a tyrant utilizing cover properly will get the job done synapse-wise ... and since my raveners are LD10 and my gaunts are not really the meat of the army, I'm not overly dependent on synapse either ... my zoas, fexes, raveners are all LD10, and the tyrant/warriors are all synapse in and of themselves. If my gaunts charge themselves out of synapse when the situation demands it, I really don't care ... their high initiative will usually get them out of a lost melee combat and safely back into synapse to go right back in the next turn, and that's only if the big mob of them actually loses the combat.