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Yes its me LordLink asking for advice on how to play eldar. Like any 40k player me and my friends have fun taunting the guard. They all manage to back it up in their games as marines, berserkers and necrons just butcher them by turn 3 without a casualty. The khorne lieutenant massacring whole squads on his own.
However whenever I go up against him I tend to get gunned down then beaten in cc. We play 1000-1500 points and I field a pair of falcons, a wave serpent and dual shuriken cannon vypers full of aspect warriors. Depending on points I also take warp spiders, scorpions and an avatar.
He has Iron Discipline, grenadiers, carapace armour, ratlings and something. Basically everything in his army has a 4+ save and doesn't run away and he usually has just enough models to set up a 2 deep line across the board. He also has a missile launcher in every squad and to many grenade launchers to count (guard fight with lasguns my ass). Back that up with a lot of krak grenades and I just can't beat him.
My rear armour has to point somewhere and my troops can't be everywhere at once. Whilst they are desperately hacking through people the rest of his army is circling around to claim objectives and trap and doom my army. I just can't cut through them fast enough.
Dire Avengers have worked well for me but I don't want to just max out an army of them. Anything that does present a threat to him just gets wiped out by ordnance as priority.
Its starting to get embarrassing being the only one to lose to guard. Any help out there?
EDIT: his last doctrine is sharpshooters.
Last edited by LordLink; December 15th, 2006 at 13:12.
Have you considered using Harliquins... they are really quite useful with their Veil of Tears n all... Also, how many scatter lasers do you use? They should help force a lot of saves and hopefully rip up the puny humans. Perhaps banshees may come in helpful with their strike first/ignore saves deal.
Next time I field an army Im going War walker heavy filled with scatter lasers so I can outrange and over power will a silly amount of shots. While they are firing away, my Harlies and scorpions will be getting stuck in (i play vs guard too and also have a 0 win success rate... though its usually allied with nids or marines).
Gah, it is a tough one, basic approach would be to reconsider your army choices and go for outshooting him with lots of cheap stuff however that is prohibitively expensive, so I would try and go for one flank, seriously comrpess your deployment to one side, try and obscure as much LOS as possible and get in to him fast units like scorpions will eat him alive, one on one spiders will beat him but he is getting about 3 squads for the price of your one so you need to limit his ability to get his numbers involved at any given time, this means good use of line of sight blockers and combat
Everything you have been told is a lie!
I generally favour shuriken cannons over scatter lasers as they are a lot cheaper and range isn't an issue. I can swap for scatter lasers though I guess.
I don't own any harlequins yet and with their save I'm cautious as to how useful they will be. They are expensive after all and massacring a guard squad in cc isn't really an accomplishment. Its trying to cross the entire damn line as it wheels around me is the problem. Harlequins seem like the perfect unit to get trapped like that.
I guess I could always tempt fate and hope my tanks survive long enough to disrupt guard lines by evacuating units and tank shocking. I tried that today but I got unlucky and they all got immobilsed (thank god for vectored engines).
Next time I think I'll try out Cheredanines idea and just slam 4 or 5 tanks into the far corner of his army and work from there. I love tank shock.
Got to admit I like shucannon too with the new rules, however, against this lot, shuricannons improved AP isnt going to help and all those flash lights will be in range, I think my new army list would be pretty effective here, loads of vypers with 2x shuricannon, walkers with 2xshuricannon or 2xscatter lasers, and bikes (and night wing for AT duties), tease him with bike squads turbo boosting in front of his line, mean time almost 100 shots at str6 obliterate him, the fact there are loads of vehicles means his MLs wont be as effective, if he wants to waste shots at the nightwing let him
But ultimately would still hit one corner and roll him up
Everything you have been told is a lie!
Cheradine (again) has a great point. Remember that Close combats block line of sight, so use that to your advantage, as long as the models are engaged, the enemy can't see through them, so try to use that.
My best suggestion would be to do something like this:
Deploy heavy in one corner, with your aspect warriors mounted / jetbikes closer to the center of the board, then deploy your Tanks / Walkers / Vypers towards the edge of the board, basically, you are going to try to engage half their army at a time.
The jetbikes / wave serpents charge at the Guard Line, and try to dismount and make it into combat, in order to tie up the weapons in this part of the army.
The tanks / vypers / walkers hit the enemy (prefereably tank shocking to try to make them break) Now, because of the combat occurring just north of them, they cannot get support from the other half of the board, and must fight your armour on their own. It seems like the Guard player will try to 'wheel' his army in order to get LOS back, but hopefully that missed shooting turn will be enough to give you an advantage. Use your tanks to back up the aspect warriors in case they get stranded. If the Guard are deployed in a straight line, the aspect warriors can just jump from unit to unit, straight up the line, with the Tanks / Vypers / etc. taking out anything that gets left behind -or- take them tank hunting to kill off the Russ' etc.
Close combat blocking line of sight is great, especially against an opponent who fights like this, think about it, if he is set up so that his entire army can face you, don't face him, turn to one side and move 'up' the line, this way, your army can face his individual squads.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes!
Gareth is the person I try to impress when I convert and paint.
I can see why people are a bit hesitant in using Harlies as their saves I agree are a little rubbish (but at least are Invulnerable), yet, as mentioned, the Veil of Tears is an awesome power and I feel will save them for the most part.
That and their speed, and ability to ignore and movement restrictions that terrain my incur is awesome. Still, going in with lots of tanks is another and good option.. I have 3 Waveserpents that will be staying on the shelf for a while, but if my next list fails (and even if it works) I shall be taking them and using them in the next battle (I rarely stick to the same lists... especially that I own so much eldar :rolleyes
I'm not much of a somebody but I'll recommend Hawks highly. They seemed to be tailor-made to beat up IG. They counter the two main elements of IG: infantry and heavy tanks effectively. I'll definitely take 2 squads of them if I wanted to be anti-IG.
Yeah and the tactics mentioned below, you really could try to use a combat conveniently in the centre of his line to 'isolate' half of his army from shooting whatever goes up the other flank. I think hitting him hard and focused on one flank could work really well.
I think that my issue with Harleys runs something like this: they will in all probability get up there intact due to veil of tears, they will charge and beat the first squad, at that point or some point soon you will either: and up standing about 4 inches away from several of his squads (cos you won a combat in your own turn and he moved his ssquads forwards) at which point he will hsoot the ever living heck out of you, or he will simply swamp them with numbers
Everything you have been told is a lie!
Swamping them with numbers is unlikely, everybody fears them in cc, but get shot up, definitely.
Personally don't like Harlies against IG cos the thing Harlies fall to is volume of shots. With IG you have every shot a small flashlight that can fire 2 times at you...that means DIE even with the invulnerable saves. On the other hand, you aim 2 Plasma shots at them, they probably survive unscathed.