Welcome to Librarium Online!
So last night I played against a Deathwing army for the first time... although it wasn't anything unexpected, that's pretty much the simplest army out there (even for Space Marines!) But that's not the point... it was a 1500 point battle, which meant I had to field every model I own to reach the limit. He had 4 minimal squads of Termies, a Librarian, and a Chaplain.
Here's what I took if you're interested:
HQ: Flyrant w/ 2x Scythes and toxin
Elites: 2x 3 Leaping Rendy Warriors
troops: 7 leaping rippers
Troops: 2x 18 hormies
troops: 2x 8 gs's w/ carapace
fast: a rending ravener
Heavy: 2 zoan's and an uber-cc-fex
I got first turn (yay!) so he had one round of shooting before the charge. In that one round, he reduced a squad of gene's and a squad of hormies to 2 or 3 models each . But I was okay with that, since I charged two of his squads next turn. My Tyrant, hormies and ravener took down one squad and consolidated into his librarian's squad, while 3 warriors and a couple genestealer survivors slaughtered all but 1 termy on the other flank. His turn, he charges in to his librarian's rescue with his Chaplain squad, and then, with the start of Turn 3, Every Single Tyranid On The Board piled in on top, into one massive bloodbath.
It was beautiful - any Tyranid player's dream. I had successfully delivered the Payload of Doom. That means I win, right?
I didn't win. He slowly killed off all 15 or so of my rending/monstrous creatures (like 30 wounds of them), while I couldn't get him to fail more than a single save a turn. :cry: I don't know what happened... I just stopped rolling rending hits, and he kept making his invulnerable's anyway. It was a sad day.
Has anyone else had similar problems with Deathwing armies, or terminators in general? I don't get it - I slaughtered half of his army in the first round of combat, and then suddenly they stopped dying... I think that things would have been a little better if I had another 10 genestealers instead of my 200-point carnifex (who did surprisingly little), but I just didn't have the models.
Still, the day one's Tyranids are bested in combat, is the day one needs to stop and think deeply for a moment.
Tyranids: 2500 pts
Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
Witch Hunters: 1000 pts
lol unlucky mate. Sounds like the dicegods were against you.
I've never really had a problem with deathwing, escalation can be very hit or miss against them but apart from that its okay. Like u said, they have 1 round of shooting before their for it.
A Lictor is good for rending and taking out one of the few squads they have for a round while in CC. As are (i find) suped up Horms, +i and +S, if they have alot of dice to roll they are going to fail some. Split them up into smaller squads so u cant loose them all to one squad and throw in some Genestealers they wont know which to shoot. I saw a squad of 5 go down to 24 of these in one round once, oh happy days. Also good is anything with a devourer for the same reason.
If they take a land raider (esp a crusader) then that can be abit of a pain to take care of but if u do manage to kill it, its a massive point sink. For 1500pts u really should have a gunfex in there and remember, even tho a VC cant penetrate, there are no good results on the glance table.
Volume of troops is ur friend against Deathwing, as is rendering. CC Carnies are a big NO NO due to stupid amount of power fists they have. As is the point of Extended Carpace cos of the rendering Ass Cannons. Just give them as many targets as u can. They dont have the numbers to kill it all.
Obviously if that was all the models u have then my advice wouldnt help u at all. But all u can do is look forward and buy more gaunts *hugs gaunt box* I love my gaunts....
"They are coming! I feel them scratching inside my mind, scratching, screaming, running, so many - so, so many voices. They're coming for us - flesh, body and soul!"
Sounds unlucky bro'. I'm not really sure of advice I could offer ... I use mega-shooty nids, and do the same thing to deathwing/termies that I do to necrons or anything else, which is to pile a million wounds on 'em with shooting and if they get too close to drop cheap gaunts all over 'em and countercharge w/ raveners. Sounds, though, like you got him dead to rights and luck pulled him through.
The advice I might give you is to go for *more* troops vs. more pricey rending troops ... for instance, against terminators like that with relatively slow movement, being careful and using 4-6 raveners instead of the genestealers and hormagaunts, and using all the freed up points on cheapgaunts to tie him up and screw with his targeting might be a good call. Also, unless I've got my deathwing mixed up, he doesn't have a WHOLE lot of long range firepower ... lots of nasty stuff inside 24" but not a *whole* lot with deeper range, so putting some bigger guns on the monstrous creatures might help ... sit back deep in cover or behind cover with your CC only units, ding him a little and make him come at you, then use all those fleets and 12" charges that you can sneak in there to zoom into him.
Also, rippers seem like a bad idea ... all the power fists and assault cannons and such just insta-gib them. Plus, 7 leaping rippers costs the same as 20 spinefist gaunts, which are WAY better by odds against just about everything. Same thing with the hormagaunts - 2 basic hormagaunts cost the same as 2 spinegaunts ... 2 spinegaunts last longer against both fire and in close combat, they still attack first in close combat, they have the same number of attacks as the basic hormie and more on the assault, they both hit on a 4+ against deathwing ... unless you start buying +strength and +ws and now you're paying way too much for a unit that gets one-shot by anything in their entire arsenal. It's not like they're going to be using non-power-weapons on you in close combat to even give you that 6+ save. Same issue w/ the uber CC fex ... you're not going to get a saving throw in close combat against power fist terminators, and they're going to wound you more than not ... maybe I'm just inexperienced w/ CC fexes (and I am), but it seems dicey to me. Again, just me, but I'd keep a few mega rendy cheap units like a couple ravener squads buried out of line of sight, pile in tons of gaunts, keep the monstrous in cover and gun him up as he comes in, then swamp him with gaunts and pile every rendy high initiative squad into each of his squads one at a time. A termie squad even w/ chaplains and such is NOT going to get through 100 point squads of gaunts w/in synapse range very quickly at all, so tie up most of his units with the gaunts, and put EVERYTHING on one squad at a time ... again I for instance have 5 raveners in my standard army ... 5 rc/st raveners assaulting get 25 rending attacks on the charge ... support THAT with your CC tyrant as well, and you're going to force 6-7 invulnerable saves on just the first round of combat. Meanwhile, the squad-light deathwing is unable to help out ... just move one to the next and mow him down.
Maybe that's the best advice, and I'm just rambling now, but it seems like you kinda just piled into him in general ... maybe next time focus all your nastiest units into one of his at a time, and use a larger number of high-pop cheap units to tie up each of his other units while you do it. Get some guns on the fex instead of mega-cc (Saves points too), and use him to drop S8 strangler pie plates on squads on their way in ... you'll get a couple unless you're damned unlucky, and you'll force him to come at you. Even nastier, keep the fex out of synapse and on a building top lurking for a 3+ save even against assault cannon rending hits.
Oh, and by the sounds of it, get some more gaunts to field, or if he's a nice guy proxy stealers and rippers and such as cheap gaunts instead.
Last edited by MVBrandt; December 16th, 2006 at 02:29.