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Give wings to warriors and you have synapse deepstrikers with a *very* similar profile to raveners. Playing around with the points, they seem to be a *tiny bit* more expensive (but not much). However they can also shoot a big gun, a pinning BS or tank busting VC. All around a little more versitile, which may be completely worth the points tradeoff.
Has there been any discussion on this? I didn't know if this had been discussed before or not.
The gun thing IS usefull, i particularly like Tl devoureers, however, warrior's BS is so poor that you have to upgrade them.
I think winged warriors may be good, but i think they should play a different roll to raveners.
Remember, flying units have a propensity to shooting
Cavalry units have a propensity towards assault.
Just my two pence.
Do wings enable Deep strike? I dont think so but could be wrong.
Rav's can be deployed as single models, thus can be far cheaper than the minimum 3 warriors.
Winged warriors shouldnt really carry guns, their bs is too low to be hugely effective and the speed is better used getting into cc. Plus stick wings and a vc into a brood and your looking at a very fragile but expensive unit.
So, looking at 3 winged warriors with ST and RC vs 3 ravs with ST and RC.
The warriors are just 6 points cheaper, have a lower ws, lower I, fewer attacks, are slower (no fleet), and cant DS.
Stick with ravs unless your trying to get some extra fast synapse models.
Edit, posted at the same time as Papa Karmoon, scarily similar post too!
i personally like the winged warriors with ST,RC,bio-plasma over rav's
post was edited
Last edited by dragon252; December 17th, 2006 at 00:12. Reason: typo
I like your combo for the warriors dragon, I might try them. But, the flight on a CC unit, while better than foot slogging isn't as good as cavalry....
I guess in city fight it's definitely worth it.
Raveners also have smaller squads, which means you can field just one or two, split them into several squads and have more movement open along with them counting as separate units which helps in cc.
Actually Karmoon, depending on board size, the wings may be better for cc. If it takes you several turns to get to the enemy, the 12" move vs the 6"+d6" move is better. Even though you have a longer charge on the ravs, in just two turns of movement + an assault, you have virtually the same total movement, except that the wings will give you a straighter, and therefore shorter path. The ravs get about 31" movement and the warriors get 30".
Last edited by Warrior47; December 17th, 2006 at 06:14.
Originally Posted by The Paint Monkey
Other wise my experience has shown me that CC Chaos Lords with cavalry movement has been far superior to those with flight. Of course, flight is beter than nothing, and as Warriors cannot fleet, it's a moot point.
My other large issue with flying units is of course, the damage that they may incur themselves. There's nothing cool about a scary warrior who sprains his ankle when landing badly on a twig. Especially considering the inredible cover related advanatages we get.
The other thing about daemonic speed i like is the surprise factor. Many players will take a 12" move into their strategy, but they often forget to factor in a 12" charge.
The only time jump troops are faster than cavalry ones is Gargoyles, and when they have hit and run.
Just my thoughts
Raveners have the advantage of being generally cheaper than Winged warriors and they can come in smaller units. However Winged warriors are more powerful, mostly because they are synapse creatures and this will make them harder to kill tham the Raveners. It also gives the handy help of being able to control large numbers of Hormagaunts etc more easily. Often our biggest challenge with Tyranids is moving that crucial synapse control from our deployment zone to our opponents.
Most of the time what we all want to do with either Raveners or Winged warriors is rend. They are not spectacular at shooting really. Raveners in this regard can have more attacks. However the Warriors have higher strength which can be handy against those vehicles.
In considering which to use it is easiest to consider this. The Raveners are cheaper and will provide a good number of rending attacks easily. Raveners are also very fragile and don't help out other Tyranids. Winged warriors are more expensive they are also dreaded in a way Raveners aren't. They will provide a good number of rending attacks and they provide synapse support and most important they can move that synapse support up the battlefield quickly.
Raveners: cheaper, smaller squads, and more attacks.
Warriors: slightly faster, front-line synapse (for the raveners), and ability to CUSTOMIZE.
I hate how raveners have no options. You can't even give them flesh hooks, which are REALLY helpful for the front-liners.
Tyranids: 2500 pts
Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
Witch Hunters: 1000 pts
I tend to think in a shooty 'nid army, raveners are superior, offering you extremely fast and deadly close-in support if the opponent gets too close to you ... this keeps your opponent with a nasty terminator assault squad or deep-striking demonhunters in termi. armor, etc honest, as you can keep pairs of Raveners behind cover and blitz into anything that even remotely threatens your big shooty units.
For an assault army, it's probably fine to have raveners if you can afford them, but the winged warriors become perhaps more situationally useful, for the many above reasons stated about fast synapse and decent enough melee ability anyway.