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Does anyone here play a coven army? I'm just wondering because having a troop choice that is immune to bolter fire interests me, but is it really a play able army? Has anyone played one here. If so could you help me out?
I played against a coven a few times, but its not a very popular choice for dark eldar players and even though its a very powerful army to play, people usually hold standard kabals in higher respect then other types of DE armies.
Overall covens are very hard to destroy from range, every time I play them, I try to maximize my CC abilities as the most basic troop choice, which is a grotesque has 2 wounds, no armor save and immune to weapons of Str5 and less. Every unit of Grotesques always has a hamonculus with a scissorhand and destructor most of the time which adds a lot more to the squads ranged and CC capabilities.
Some strengths that the army has:
- The units are pretty cool and unique. Grotesques, mandrakes, taloses and hamonculi are among some of the most unusual units for any standard coven.
- The army is devastating in CC, most of the choices are CC oriented so taloses along with grotesques(preferably jumping out of WWP) will take down almost anything that one can face.
- This is a very good type of army for a WWP, the hamonculi are the best WWP carriers are grotesques are the best shielders. So for the WWP purposes, this is definitely the most easiest and most convenient army to play.
- Relative strengths of the units are very high, talos is an unpredictable monster in CC, grots are simply shields, mandrakes have hidden deployments, hamonculi have very devastating weapons and also some basic units like warrior squads, raiders and ravagers are also fair game for any coven.
Weaknesses, or at least some of them are:
- The army will have a great deal of trouble counteringarmies with lots of weak troops like orks and nid swarms, chances are the grots will get overwhelmed in CC as they will never inflict more wounds then 30 gaunts. However, again this depends on the player's level of experience.
- Farily expensive units, basc troop unit will be ** points each, and other then that all the models are metal so it will be a big pain painting all of em.
- I personaly consider the loss of bikes, hellions and wyches a great disadvantage
- Will hit you pretty hard money wise, grotesques are a pain to buy by mail order, and its very hard to find em on ebay as they are pretty rare, and if you do they will probably be quite expensive even for online auction
Overall, you can pretty much create an army that will stand out from all others, without having to buy any unique forgeworld models. And overall, it should be quite fun to play.
Hi necronoob. I personally have never played against grotesques and very rarely used them even though the only army I have is about 5000pts of Dark Eldar (containing only 15 grots).
So I will find the answer to your question just as interesting as you. The answers provided by Wraithguardian have always been helpful and I take note of them every time. The only thing that really deters me from giving more grots a go is their elite slot placement, I think that wyches are far more useful and I am more comfortable in using them.
In the last edition of the rule book I think that you had to shoot the nearest squad but in the current 4th edition you dont have to provided that a leadership test is passed and thats not hard with a lot of armies - so their "meat shield" purpose is negated somewhat. And for the same points cost as a standard marine, no armour save and the need to take a leadership test to move when unaccompanied by an HQ choice you sort of see where the trouble starts. This is one of the elite choices that definately need polishing by GW as their fluff is fantastic.
Lots of luck with them though.
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I'd have to say that in my opinion, their loss in 4th Edition of the meat-shield role has reduced to the usefulness of Grots to not-much-at-all. They're just too expensive for what they do these days, and they take an Elites slot, so even an attempt at a coven army will have to include 2 units of warriors/raider squads.
Thanks guys. Unfornatly I haven't got a codex yet(because I'm broke) but I know a large part of the rules. I am looking at a coven army because most of the people I play use meq one of them uses a nid army(but he is newer to 40K than me). Making a army filled with grots that are immune to bolter's really makes me think about using them. But I now am wondering how it would fair against eldar?
Grots.. They may have been downgraded and all, but for me they still have their advantages besides a meat shield. If you stick a Dracon with a punisher plus the aminus viate is sweet. If you win combat, they flee auotmatically and you will have a pretty good chance of running the oppenent down (you use highest Ininative). If its against a pretty sizable unit like say guard that could put you in a nice victory point hold over your opponent. But sadly this is flawed to as the grots don't have fleet of foot so they move at the standard 6 inche.
Against Eldar, I think they may have some trouble. Eldar have Scatterlasers, Starcannons and Shuriken Cannons, all of which are multi-shot and strong enough to instant-kill Grots.
In general, while their Terrifying rule (or whatever it's called, the one that forces fallback) can be useful, they themselves aren't THAT good in combat. You'd still bet on MEQs to win the fight. And the wounds they lose may contribute to the Archon being in a LOSING fight...
One thing I've thought is that they may be a good meatshield for a Haemonculus in a Raider with a WWP, since they all have multiple wounds, in case the Raider gets shot down... Never tried it though. Probably too expensive a delivery system.
I play coven armies once in a while but I try to stay away from them against the MEQ's simply because I feel Marines will win the fight. If you can tackle a squad smaller than the grotesques then I would say you have a good chance but larger tac squads will win in CC since the grots will be hitting last and taking wounds with no saves. It is a fun and fluffy list to use as long as you dont mind the good chance of losing.
I have beaten the Tau, IG, Marines and Eldar with a true Coven list but I would say that the Tau and IG are the easier of the four simply because of their leadership and armor save. You have to rely on using raider squads or warrior squads to shoot as much as possible and augment the shooting with pinning as well. In this case, I also used 3 Taloi coming out of the warp to do 80% of the needed CC and just moved the Haemys around (6 of them) to flame as much as possible. The grotesques worked wonderfully against the Kroot too - remember you want to charge and not be charged.
I have also used the grotesques with 2 Haemys to deploy a portal - incredibly expensive and probably not worth it. I will say that it is one of the most reliable raider based wwp deployer I have used yet. They have never failed their mission and have always deployed at an advanced position. I give a portal to one of the Haemys and place him on a raider with another Haemy w/8 Grotesques. They move 12" forward, eveyone deploys and the Haemy with the portal seperates from the group behind the Grotesques. I prefer deploying into cover but not always needed, however, now with cover they will have to fire str. 6 at the grotesques and they get a cover save to boot. The Haemy with the grots can either hang out or charge with the grots or separate and charge on his own. The wwp deploying Haemy can either join with the abandoned grots or take of on his own as well. I have abandoned grots on their own many times but usually around a take-and-hold objective or loot counter.
You have to be creative and know what your Grots will do - I have to say that I dont recommend them for new players and not very effective against most of the armies out there.
Good luck and happy hunting!
Last edited by KwiKwag; December 18th, 2006 at 16:56.
Are coven armies official. I can't seem to find rules for them or an organization chart. Theres no mention of them in the codex. Just Kabals and Witch Cults.
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Imperial Guard: 1.1.0
Personally, I would field only 2 squads of grotesques and a bunch of warriors in order to fill in the points and still have a legal army by Kabal standards - I just call it a "Coven".
I would love to see GW add a "Coven" army list to the codex as well as letting Urien Rakkarth fight with other haemoculi rather than being tied to an Archon. You would think a master Haemoculus would have an apprentice or something.
So to answer your question - it is not official.