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First things first: I'm a chaos player, and a friend of mine is having difficulty winning with Necrons in our local environment. Our circle consists of: Chaos, Smurfs, Bugs, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Tau, & S.O.B.. Here's what he generaly fields:
Lord: Orb, Veil
2-3x Warriors Units
1x Heavy Destroyer (3x in the unit)
1x Destroyer (5x in the unit)
2x Immortals (10 in each unit)
This is a rough appraisal of his army, as I can't recall it exactly. At any rate, I was hoping to get some advice on what's generally regarded as good Necron Units. Are there some he should avoid? My brother keeps telling us that the Mono isn't worth it, and I've heard that as well. Yes? No?
Thanks for any advice.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
Although not being a Necron player myself, i do have a little bit to add.
I have heard that Heavy Destroyers are not worth it. I have nothing to back that up with, but people i've spoken with generally agree. I think that the idea is, Destoryers are cheaper, so you can get more and they have more shots hence more chances too kill your target. More shots also means that you can kill infintry more effectively (assuming you cant shoot at a vehicle). I also dont think Heavy Destroyers are worth thier points, for what they do. And as far as i know, Destroyers can still take out AV14 stuff.
I'd keep Destroyers / Hvy Destroyers in as small squads as possible. Keeping minimum models in a squad, while maximising the number of squads you have lets you
I'd stick with the monolith cos i like em!
- fire at more targets,
- waste less shots from overkill,
- loose less models from overkill,
- forces the enemy to choose from more targets,
- more flexability,
- easier to hide behind cover
- squads seem less threatening
Hope this helps mate, and good luck to your friend.
If you look down on me, you see a fool.
If you look up at me, you see a god.
If you look me straight in the eye, you see yourself.
- Charles Manson
Well HD are specalised, if he can tailor his list each game he should take them when he expects to face anything with a 2+ save (Hive Tyrants, Terminators ect)
I would buy one more and run 2x2 units
necrons work best with units of 2 it really helps with WBB
so after saying that i would have one more destroyer and run 2x3 units instead on 1x5
5 destroyers are surprising easy to take down and if they the only unit he has there not getting back up (same goes for 1x3 HD are even easier to knock down).
Other than that he has some awesome firepower with 3 warrior squads and 2 full squads of immortals!
Thanks for the help so far. I've also heard, as Jakman mentioned, that heavy destroyers aren't worth it. For their point cost, they are exceptionally easy to kill. I would think (being a non-Necron player) that regular destroyers could fill the role of a tank busting unit, given the number of shots and the range.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
So all the talk seems to be about how heavy destroyers are low quality. However I think they can be a valueable asset to a Necron army. First they are your best chance to kill a tough (AV > 11 vehicle); all of your other guns can only glance. Second they are high toughness 3+ save models, with WBB so they aren't easy to kill. What they really need is to be used very tactically--First don't put them all together, this forces them to only shoot at only one unit, second it allows small arms fire to kill them (as well as the missle launcher/lascannon that is in the tactical squad) so you can lose two models instead of one. Third play for point value, a single heavy destroyer cost less than any tank in the game except a rhino, if you start out of sight, and move 12 inches you should be able to fire at just about any vehicle on the field (espcially helpfull against indirect fire); If you kill it you made more than your points back, now to make it more surviveable, you have to keep another HD within six inches, and if the first one missed you take a second shot, if it hit, now your second can shoot at something else. Now Regular destroyers can do the same thing, but they cost more (3 regs out costs 2 heavys), are more vulnerable (one squad is easier to kill than two), and are less effective (need sixes to glance anything AV>11; and glances are normally only delay them from shooting).
The real key is that you have to be willing to sacrifice your HDs so that your other models can live. Just remember if they do anything they are worth it because they cost less than what they are meant to target.
PS--They are just as effective as a five man tac squad with a lascannon (for tank hunting), except they are more mobile (great for contesting quarters at the end), have WBB, and cost 30 points less.
On to the real question, the monolith is only not worth it against Lascannon heavy guard, and obliterator heavy chaos, In every other game I have ever seen it does tons of damage and raises your phase out number (cosmically--by saving models; consider evey model saved one more that you can loose before you phase out) Also can be a killer in low point games. Immortals are great, but destroyers can be better, depending on how he use his mobility even though they are about the same shooting effecintcy and have less wounds.
IMO, lose the heavy D's to free up a lot of points.
I would use the points on an other, 4 strong destroyer unit (since they really are that good) or another squad of warriors for a really low phase out number.
Out of those opponents he may be facing (according to your list) only the chaos and sm will be difficult to beat with just a warrior and/or destroyer mass.
The biggest difficulty (for lack of a better word) I see with people using necrons is they don't "get" quite how necrons work.
With such a large core of warriors and the monolith you need to work around the monolith's mobility and the warriors short range firepower (this is actually quite difficult to get right, but it works wonderfully vs most opponents).
Using them as shooty sm doesn't quite work (yet on paper it should).
I don't see a problem with the list bar the heavy D's, so it probably coems down to tactics.
[Edit] I don't mean to sound all elitist, if thats how its come over.
The Outsider: You don't sound elitist; just tactful. Thank you for the suggestions.
nichodemus10: Very good points regarding the H.Ds. Since my friend takes them in squads of 3, they are very nice targets. Even a havoc squad with 4 autocannons can get enough shots in to take down 2 each round. However, your suggestion to put them in separate squads just makes sense, and I'm a little surprised that my friend hasn't been doing that with his one remaining open heavy slot. A single H.D. seems solid, since it's not a high priority target and has great mobility. Still, my limited experience against the Necron suggests that regular destroyers are better overall- both for the point cost, and, if taken in numbers, should be able to get enough glancing blows to take down heavily armored vehicles. I lost two preds in two turns to these pups, and the preds had the proper defensive upgrades. Five destroyers= 15shots; 10hits; and roughly 2 glancing blows...seems pretty good.
Lords: Is it worth the points to have two lords w/ orbs? It seems very effective, especially considering our circle, which includes many rending abilities, power weapons, and monstrous creatures.
Mono: So, is there a general consensus on this vehicle? Is it worth it. For its cost, one could get an additional two necron warrior sqauds and a destroyer. I usually take the monolith down by turn 3. I've heard players say that one should simply ignore the monolith and focus on phase out, but I must say, it's sooo much easier to kill Necrons when the monolith is destroyed.
Spambot kill tally. . .337
A monolith is so helpful to a necron army its really hard to go without.
The destroyers are great at taking down any anti monolith tanks and put the hurt on anything short of a full devastor squad (IMO destroyer's first targets should be anything anti monolith).
The lords, hmm while I myself don't think two are worth it, but since he is running a flying circus two are VERY valuable if it goes horribly wrong, but that comes down to playstyle I guess.
Well i'm not actually a necron player, but one thing i've noticed is you should always have multiple units....the ammount of times my friends have lost because they couldn't take we'll be back rolls.....all because there were no other's of that unit around!!!!!
Regular destroyers are very hit-or-miss IMO. I've seen games where a trio of them simply sat where they were over the span of 2 turns firing 9 shots a turn at my Dreadnought (I had no other vehicles) and after 2 straight turns (18 shots!) they didn't so much as glance the armour.
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