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What success have people had with pathfinders? I've never used them because they seem like a lot of points for what they do?
What is the best squad configuration?
What are they best for?
Are they actually worth taking, or would the points be better spent on guardians and avengers?
What do you think?
Prefered squad size 5
All sniper rifle equiped troops are good VS stuff that relies on a high number of wounds and high toughness, so if you know your opponent is using:
Then these babies rock
Otherwise the lack of AP on sniper weapons tends to be a little embarressing (either your opponent has so much armour he tends to ignore tham, or so many bodies he can still ignore them)
Pinning tends to be a non starter (those armies that fail moral tests with any degree of consistency tend to have so many units that one standing still isnt really a problem)
Rangers in general and Pathfinders in particular however have two major plusses:
1 they are damn near unkillable for shooty armies when deployed in decent cover
2 their ability to get AP1 one shot in three
This makes them more effective particularly against MEQ or shooty armies and hugely against MEQ AND shooty armies
So If you know your opponent is going to field one of those high toughnness beasties, or you know he plays MEQ or shooty army then they are worth while, if your army is entirely shooty based then one squad is probably worth including
IF you play Alaitoc, then max out on these and then they become viable
one other thing, I know a player who swears by these for light to medium armour! never worked against me, but he seems to think they are good
Everything you have been told is a lie!
Don't forget these guys have a long range compared to guardians. Pinning can be handy at certain times in the game. Really depends on your list. If its heavy stationary shooting these guys are good.
The upgrade to pathfinder is SO worth it. Really good against NECRONS and MARINES, and especially termies! (Bring your weighted Die :ninja
I think Cheredanine nailed it. I haven't really enjoyed the Pathfinders against marine armies. There are to few shots, and most of them are saved by the Marines army. Some of them get through when the AP1 roll hits, but otherwise, I like more volume of fire.
My wife's uses Marines though, and her scouts crush my Wraithlord. Sniper weapons really are great vs the high toughness models, since they always hit on 4+. I'd field Pathfinders more if I wasn't mostly shooting at Marines.
The cover save is nice, but against any assaulting troops, they'll fall pretty quickly, especially against larger numbers of troops that they can't thin down.
I haven't used the path Finder upgrade yet, and am not likely to since I think it would be too costly.
Most of the time I've fielded a 10 man squad of scouts they help in 2 ways...they soak an inordinate amount of shots because people are afraid they'll take down their general or other uber-bad-arse...or they move through cover quickly and sit in an objective and can't get shot out (I love the improved cover save).
Offensively I've had them drop a wraithlord once and wound a nightbringer, but its rarely decisive. I take them because they are a tough unit that people shoot at, not because they kill much for me. (I suck at rolling though). Points-wise there are better options out there, but they are a good unit and can be used effectively. If you are building an army I concur with the other guys, get a 5 man squad and see how you like them and then figure out if you want to make it part of your regular list. I went to a 10 man squad because I needed 10 shots to be effective offensively and because 5 man squads break too quickly if they get shot up. (But like I said, I suck at rolling dice).
"Orcs are what happens when Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles grow old and bitter."
Oooo. Good thread. So let's say you take one in a take all comers army. In lieu of the juiciest targets (not present, LOS blocked, etc), such as MEQs or multi-wound models, what would you use them to do? Grab objectives? Support other units like the avengers in shooting the piss out of some entitled monkeigh? Prevent forest fires?
Cause I am thinking of buying a box of them to experiment with. Should rock. But I just want to make sure that they aren't too specialized. :shifty:
I'm an American, religious, male and a proud Republican. You have your beliefs and (gasp) I have mine. Deal with it!Originally Posted by Wikipedia
I have to admit that I used rangers a lot, but it was mostly because I had a full 10 man squad painted and have found out the hard way that 5 man squads don't work for me.In lieu of the juiciest targets (not present, LOS blocked, etc), such as MEQs or multi-wound models, what would you use them to do? Grab objectives? Support other units like the avengers in shooting the piss out of some entitled monkeigh? Prevent forest fires?
I'll answer this in two ways: The way I most often failed, and the way I've most often succeeded.
Failed: Infultrated out in front, but was too slow to support with something else and they either got assaulted or shot all to hell (less of a failure, but there are cheaper bullet-sponges, they usually soak A LOT, so it can be a benefit, but I always like some offense for 19 points)
Success: Used movement benefits or infiltrated to hold objective, hunkered down, and fortuned or otherwise supported. I still didn't get them to kill too much, but they were 'dug in deeper then an Alabama tick' (name the movie quote...its an easy one)
I guess the short answer is grab the objective, dig in, and then squeeze whatever offense you can get out of them. barring juicy targets their added punch combined with DA might be decisive, but not like holding an objective will be (especially when combined with Fortune).
"Orcs are what happens when Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles grow old and bitter."
And to bring this all back to the top of the thread - yes, the pathfinder upgrade is worth it.
If you are using the Pathfinders in all comers, they hold objectives better than rangers due to the even more godly cover save.
If you have open fire lanes, the differences between Rangers and Pathfinders is simple: do you like having twice as many chances to wound at AP1? Thought so.
I'm with Frankmaneldar on squad numbers - 10 man units soak up a crapload of fire, and give you a better chance for the AP1 shots. For the cost, Pathfinders increase the effiecency of the Ranger groups.
The downside - they are very much a helper unit. Unless you are lucky, you will not be killing their weight in points with them. What they do is wear down units. The unit of eight MEQs you were planning on bladestorming is now only six (and less likely to have assaulting survivors). Taking down a TMC becomes a matter of knocking off the last wound or two (and thus only needing on turn of a units heavy weapons fire to knock over the beasty, instead of tieing up that heavy's fire for several turns). Or his MEQs spend several turns blasting your rangers while the aspect warriors approach. Or you can just got batsh** on terminators - remember the double number of AP1 shots Pathfinder gets you?
I like Pathfinders, and their a nice counterpoint to our list. Their fire is long ranged - and the cover save gets ungodly. Cities of Death.... infiltrate them into tall buildings. :yes: They support the short-ranged, low save units in our list quite well.
Rangers/Pathfinders are wind and water - the wear your opponents units into smaller and more easily shattered rocks.
Last edited by Kingwithoutacrown; December 20th, 2006 at 06:35.
I'm liking my pathfinders... it's nice to reliably kill a few marines every turn. Not enough to have the wrath of the opponent descend upon them, but enough for them to quitely make their points back over the course of a game.
And of course, their survivability is boosted further when you've got them painted in camo colours and shove them in the middle of a wood/ jungle so your opponent forgets they're even there
They don't really make their points back, much.
They don't kill very much.
The best thing my opponent could do is ignore them.
They are ok at holding objective (unless they get charged)
They are cool.
For me I think I'm still gona go for guardians untill I have some spare money, cos they are cool.