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I'm sure the question has been asked before, (but I couldn't find it on the previous posts), which is better? Broadsides (BS) or Hammerheads (HH)?
Here's the parameters I'm working with:
- Army size of 1750 (max)
- (most probably using) Fish of Fury tactic at 1750
- Current army consists of commader, 3 fire-knife crisis suits, 20 firewarriors, 1 broadside
- Want to get some Piranahas, Stealth suits (but am willing to change if tactically better)
- Don't want to use Vespids, Kroot or Human aux
The pros and cons for both the BS and the HH from other people I have asked:
- The BS has TL rail guns, so there is a 3/4 chance to hit rather than the 2/3 from the HH
- The HH can move 12' and shoot while the BS can move 6' (at best) and fire
- The HH can go down to a single shot while the BS can take a few shots when equiped with shield drones
- The BS can only fire a single type shot (solid shot) while the HH can fire both (solid and sub munitions)
- You can roughly get 2 BS's for a single HH
So, which is better? The HH or the BS?
Black Templars 3000 points
Tau Empire 1750 points
Tyranids 1500 points
Hordes of Chaos *Coming soon*
Better in general?
It depends on what the rest of your list consists of. I know you gave a brief list, but it's not enough to work with.
I run two HHs and a pair of broadsides in most of my lists because they serve two different purposes. Actually been thinking of going with three HHs lately.
Go for a full unit of stealth for sure. I don't know what your hang up is with kroot, but they are a great addition to any list. You'll probably need a few more crisis.
I would say that, at most, have one full unit of broadsides in your army. Broadsides serve a strong intimidation purpose, for good reason too. No commander worth his beans would put his tanks in LOS of three twin-linked railguns. A squad of broadsides makes for an excellent base/fallback point for the rest of your army (match them with fire-warriors and pathfinders in a defendable position and you can deal so much pain) and can be good for holding the home table-quarter in a cleanse style mission. A Broadside squad will force your opponent to move his vehicles and monstrous creatures behind cover, slowing down the harder part of his army. In all likelyhood your Broadsides won't get to shoot much of their preferred enemy, but the intimidation factor brought to the battlefield will be well worth the points.
Hammerheads, on the other hand, serve to capture objectives, disrupt the enemy formation and deal with any foe. They are fast, durable, and versatile, good for their points. Where Broadsides bring power to the field, Hammerheads bring practicality.
In my personal opinion, you should use either two Hammerheads and a squad of Broadsides or sheerly three Hammerheads. Broadsides, while strong, rarely get the opportunity to be used effectively.
By the way, I'm back on the forums guys. Wassup
My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.
You should start off with a hammerhead; they are good for almost everything. Broadsides only do one thing, kill heavy stuff, but they do it better than just about anything out there.
As you get up into the higher point totals, which 1750 is, you're gonna want to fill in all three heavy slots. 3 Hammerheads certainly will work, but I think you will find that against most army lists, 2 hammerheads and a squad of broadsides will be more efficient. 3 hammerheads is also kinda boring!
You're going to want the advanced stabilizer system, and two shield drones (as you need the inuv save, boradisides draw las cannon fire!). A target lock is also highly reccomended.
There are so many units out there that can counter a broadside unit, infiltrating units(even lists), fast assault units, fast shooting units, transport units in things like Falcons, drop pod lists and it goes on, and I have not even mentioned how easy they are to out deploy.
They are heavy support so will go on the table before most units, this gives the opponent an advantage if he has fast attack or scout/infiltrating units, an XV88 does 1 thing and one thing only SHOOT, if it aint shooting its useless.
XV88's can be nullified very easily just by the judicious use of deployment and intelligent application of just 1 or 2 units throughout the 1st turn.
So basically you have your XV88 unit placed, the opponent will usually have his transport/armour in cover and should have some units poised to take the XV88 out, be it by assualting or by shooting them, infiltrators or scouts will be even more of a threat, so the XV88 has 1 turn of shooting (if it gets 1st turn) and possibly not even that if the opponent gets 1st turn, if a unit gets within 12" of the XV88's they have to be dealt with either by moving or by shooting them, if the Tau player has devoted lots of resources to keeping the XV88's safe then this is always to the detriment of the rest of his list, to me its a no win situation and one most experienced Tau opponents will be wise to, oh and I havent even gone into the ramifications of losing the drones and running away.
Now to the other down side COST:
A fully tricked up 3 man squad with a team leader, all with ASS and team leader with HW target lock and drone controller + 2 shield drones pans out at (wait for this) 280pts.
A fully tricked out HH with multi, DL and Railgun costs 165pts.
Thats a massive 115pts difference between the XV88 unit and the HH, where does those points come from, what other part of the list is going to have its effectiveness reduced to the point of 115pts and even with a two man XV88 team with drones your talking a 35pts deficit.
Three Hammerheads have just as much (if not more) intimidation value as XV88's they are much more flexible in that they can deal with a very large range of units, with ML guidence they are lethal and hardly shabby without it, they are infinatly more mobile and are very hard to kill.
The XV88 team always seems good in theory and I would never say anyone is stupid or anything for taking them , if used well and luck is on your side they can be deadly, but I know how easy they are to counter, I have done it enough times myself to know that no matter how good the Tau general, if your playing a competent opponent its almost impossible to have XV88 perform well enough to justify there cost.
Hammerheads rule the roost for good reason, cheap, effecient, durable, versatile, hard hitting what more do you want out of a unit.
However, two broadsides with two shield drones each comes to a more respectable 200 pts, and I imagine tanks would still hesitate moving/deploying into their fire lanes. If they don't make those points back they'll probabably make it back through strategy (placement, absorbing fire, etc). I'm afraid I might have to cop out and say it really depends on the rest of the army composition. As mentioned before, if you need a firebase then Broadsides are the way to go, but if you need to funnel the enemy and flush out units then the Hammerheads are choice.
If your entire force is mobile then I would go with the HH's for both fluff, style, and feel. If you are going to keep that single Broadside, then pair 'em up with another. Pirahnas can support HH's well, but they complement Broadsides more. As for more crisis or stealth, that would be a more personal taste and reliant on what you ultimately decide for the rest of your army.
"L'adace, l'adace, toujours ladace"
- Gen. George S. Patton, Jr.
Don't give the enemy a moment to consider how badly they are being beaten.
Never build defenses; let the enemy die in theirs.
"Audacity, audacity, always audacity"
- Gen. George S. Patton, Jr.
Firebase for Tau is redundant I used to go for the Tau firebase big time, but now no, Tau are a mobile heavy firepower list type, there is no middle ground, mobility with heavy hitting firpower is where Tau work and I am 100% sure that all the Tau uber generals will agree with me on this, I used to argue that hybrid Tau was the way to go with Oni in particular(all strength to you Oni for predictng the futue of Tau) but now its mech Tau all the way, the new codex has just strengthened this opinion and XV88's have no place in a true Tau list, sorry if thats to definative but thats the way I see it.If you dont like it well tough cos its the way its going.
This question has popped up an awful lot on these forums... did you try a search?
As for the argument, I would have to say that if you're looking for cheap, reliable anti-tank weaponry that doesn't have to move much, go for Broadsides.
However, if you want a more versatile, more reliable, more durable model, go for the Hammerhead. The Railgun is anti-tank and anti-infantry, and with AV13 and Skimmers Moving Fast, as well as Decoy Launchers, it's a very durable tank. Especially combined with Markerlight support, it is an especially dangerous tool against enemy armour and infantry alike.
I would always recommend the Hammerhead over the Broadside.