Welcome to Librarium Online!
Im new to eldar and wondering about what the most effective way to use the troop choices are, in particular guardians and dire avengers. the only really useful troop choices seem to be bikers and ranger/pathfinders because with avengers/guardians so much goes into just getting them somewhere where they can be effective...
With guardins the best way i can think of is to use them as a meat shield for a heavy weapon i havent managed to have a game yet but im wondering do players ever get to use the shuriken catapults? how do you keep your squads alive? large numbers+conceal (+ fortune?)? im thinking if your taking that much just for a heavy weapon you might as well take rangers...
With the avengers how do you guys get them into effective range without getting totally ripped to bits? theres the wave serpent but thats a rather expensive way to get some catapults in range... what ways have you guys found to get the most of your avengers? these guys suffer some of the same problems as guardians IMO although not as bad as they have a better armour save and range.
Comments on ranger and bikers tactics and uses would also be appreciated as im trying to figure out of i should include these and if i do how many and hwo i would use them.
Combinations that you guys have found effective for all the different troops choices would also be rather useful for me so i dont have to find them the hardway >.< eg. different wargear/weapon layout or combinations with other squads that have worked well.
Thanks to anyone who comments useful comments will be greatly appreciated!
Guardians are cool if they can count on an Avatar. They're fragile and will eventually run away, make them immune to morale checks and you have a moving heavy weapon with 10 wounds. If you have the points, you can invest on a warlock to conceal the team, but it boosts the cost a lot
Avengers have a decent range, Bladestorm and an assault weapon. I usually never put them on a vehicle, if my opponent is assault oriented,I'll just wait him and shoot, while moving backward. If he has a shooty army, run in his direction trying to get some cover, then unleash a couple of Bladestorms before assaulting with your CC units. For their price (around 150) they're fantastic.
I don't like jetbikes much, they cost a lot of points for what they do imho.
Pathfinders can be great,depending on the army you're going to face and your luck. Five pathfinders cost 120 points and can be a pain or do completely nothing to your opponent, it all depends on your rolls. If you get a lot of 5+ to hit, you'll get back their points in a couple of turns and add some pinning, but if you make low rolls they'll wound on a 4* and allow every armour save...do'h Pinning huge units with low D is nice, but if you face lots of Space Marines then you can only rely on high rolls from your side, low rolls for your opponent. Sometimes this works, sometimes it doesn't
I always play 2 full units of Avengers with Bladestorm, equipment of the Exarcs depends on my mood Since I play 2 full units of Bainshees and Scorpions + 5 Reapers, I don't need to add a lot of troops in my list. If I had to,I'd pick a third unit of Avengers (3 Bladestorms = 90 hits x__x ) or 10 Guardians with a warlock + conceal, with the heavy weapon you like the most.
As for the tactics, Eldar troops don't shine in close combat. I usually play them following my inner voice, telling me:"If you can outshoot him...do it". This doesn't always work, eventually I'll have to face extremely shooty armies and rush in their directions. But with 20 Avengers and some backup fire you can deal with any threat in the middle of the table. Since most armies I've faced rely on 2 units (usually havocs and a vehicle) to shoot while advancing with the rest of the army, I take care of those 2 units with Falcon\Warwalkers\Whatever while shooting the incoming mass as long as I can. Troops (Avengers, Guardians etc) can do this nicely, and since they cost few points it won't be a tragedy if some of them will die in the process (and they will, so many AP 4 around >__< )
Its called fists of fury.
Some people like it, others don't.
I do. The concept involves loading two serpents full of avengers, flying them up to a squad disembarking, unloading 60 shots or watever then hiding behind the serpent to counter the charge. Of course with the longer range we now don't have to worry about being charged by most troops.
Two lots of avengers in serpents provides a very mobile base for an army, they have lots of firepower, they are very sticky once dug into cover, they are very mobile. Lots of options.
Guardians provide the much needed numbers in my army, I use them as a mobile firebase with a wraithlord to stop any chaos lords having to much fun. Advance them all game until they are on top of your enemy and he's forced to make a decision.
Of course against GEQ's avengers and guardians are just laughing.
Some people use pathfinders and rangers, I dont like them because I think they cost to much. Just down to personal taste though. Duno bout bikes, never used them, I just don't see how a few bikes are gona influence a battle that much, spears yes, bikes no.
I've written a tactica on this so feel free to look at my thoughts....it's quite long though.
New Eldar Tactica
Use the link above or the one in my signiture ^^
I quite like jetbikes - At the moment I'm using three units of three with a shuriken cannon. They're fast, shooty and can keep out of harm's way until they need to claim an objective.
But you've got to make them work with the rest of your list - jetbikes are ideal if the rest of your army is also quite fast, that way your opponent has difficulty attacking a point in your line since you can rapidly redeploy to a better position.
Both Guardians and Dire Avengers have their place in different styles of army. What your strategy is going to be should influence what you want to be the core of your army.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
I'd like jetbikes if they weren't so pricey in real money.
I've been having fair luck with my dire avengers. With their ability to step and shoot and fleet if need be they can pretty much always get into range on turn 2.
Also by sheer chance I've had a couple games against the guard with them. Their ability to kill guardsman is simply incredible.
And that's what I think their real place is. They provide a wonderful anti hoard component so I can safely focus the rest of my force against more MEQ like targets by using shining spears, fire dragons in falcons, that sort of thing.
Part of what can keep them alive is throwing out heavy threats in front of them. For example a kitted out falcon or fortuned, turbo boosted bikes. Through failed target priority tests and fear of the units themselves a lot of my oppenets shooting will be aimed at the forward targets. Leaving my avengers alive to do their thing.
I field large numbers of them (30 to 40) without exarcs. Usually in small squads. This keeps them cheap and mobile and gives me an advantage in set up as with 3 heavies and 6 troops they'll often have their entire army down before or just after I start placing elites. This lets me set up the battlefield as I want it.
Last edited by sunnyside; December 29th, 2006 at 19:44.
I dont want to have to buy two waveserpents too make avengers effective its expensive $ and points wise and if one goes down the other becomes less effective.
So is it recommended to keep static in cover or mobile with guardians? do you guys find it cost effective to have lots of small guardian squads with heavy weapons??? you can get 2 scatter lasers on a walker with a spiritstone for 65 points thats less than ten guardians! I used to play marines and id have 5 or 6 man heavy weapon/plasma gun squads and im wondering if guardians fill the same role as those squads do...Coming from marines im terrified that a 4/5+ armour save is going to get shredded to bits and by turn 3 all my guardians and avengers will be dead. how do you guys prevent this? good use of cover?
On paper to me its seems that lost of guardians would just get shot up and running/getting wiped out. I made an army list but my only troops ended up been 5 rangers/pathfinders (either one depending on other units) and 3 jetbikes.
I also had:
a full banshee squad (with waveserpent)
a full scorpion squads
a 6 man fire dragon (in flacon)
a 5 man darkreaper squad
it came out to just about 1500 and im sure im going to need more troops but i cant think what i could remove to include them just quickly what of that do you guys thinks is unecessary if you cant really answer without a full list i can post one up ill just have to find it.
It just lacks on numbers but i feel the role of guardians/avengers has become redundant with so many heavy weapons already (walkers, reapers, falcon, serpent). It basically comes down to if warwalkers and combination of so many aspects can replace the guardians/avengers.
sorry for been a pain with quite a few difficult situation questions but rest assured the posts so far have been helpful and hopefully ill be able to figure out these tricksy space elves soon
I play a nearly identical list, with Eldrad instead of 2 Farseers, and 20 Avengers as troops. I don't play Fire Dragons.
If you use 2 units of Guardians they'll easily run away. If you play 2 units of Guardians and 20 Avenger, you'll have an extremely high model count,and your opponent won't be able to shoot all your troops. From your list I'd drop bikes,pathfinders,fire dragons and a few other models,and play 20 Avengers + 10 (or possibly 20) Guardians. If you want to keep the HQ cheap,play a single Farseer with Doom or Guide (possibly Doom, your Bainshees will thank you forever), this should leave you with enough points to play 20 Guardians + 20 Avengers, and that's a lot of assault-fire. If you rely heavily on psychic powers, Eldrad is your best bet. A Farseer with 2 Psychic powers will cost 130pts approx (includins stones,etc), for a mere 80 additional points you get Eldrad, and he can't fail. If you haven't tried him yet, ask a friend to play a game and use your Farseer as Eldrad. ALL psychic powers + ALL equipments, 3 powers each turn... >_>
But if your main concern is the resilience of your troops, use a cheap Farseer and 20 Guardians + 20 Avengers, apart from Tau there's not many armies able to deal with so much moving fire (maybe a Necron's Flying Circus).
What are the "other models" you'd reccomend removing because i took out the path finders, bikes and dragons and i managed to get in 2 squads of 10 dire avengers. I was wondering with the removal of the dragons what would be an easy way of adding more anti-tank? fast shot EML reaper exarch possibly or a TL brightlance on a wave serpent? what would you recommend/what have you found works best? I could add in a guardian squad but they are notoriously bad with the one shot anti tank weapons so im hoping ill be able to give them a shurikencannon or a scatter laser.
The problem with eldrad is if you want a farseer for your assualt troops and one for youre fire base he cant be in both places at once while 2 cheap farseers (one ability each) can be. His divination power is SO awesome tho gotta love screwing with youre opponents head
AH great the only tau player i know is my brother who has just finished making a rather large tau army do'h! im sure ill be able to cope.
Could i see a sample of your list genesis just so i can get a general feel for what it would look like fully not going to totally pilfer it i promise O.o (unless you're some tactical genius and have got a perfect list ) just curious about how others who have list similar to mine have managed to get everything in im glad you have close to the same list ive been looking on the army list section and the lists have been quite different i was wondering if i was making some eldar faux pas
a lot of people tend to disagree with me on this strategy, but it is effective if unorthodox, and wouldn't work without aspect support, but I mass large squads of storm guardians with warlocks w/ enhance. it makes them attack faster than MEQ opponents, and at low points per model, I have a horde of fleeting initiative 5 WS4 guardians with 3 attack each on the charge. (however, I have not to date beaten nurgle chaos SM due to T5)