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Thread: Force weapons

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    Force weapons

    does anyone know if there has been a ruling from GW as to weather or not forceweapons "slay outright" tyranid creatures in synapse and where i might find the ruling.

    im asking because my local club is currently going with the side that YES force weapons do kill my guys outright because Gw uses the wording "slays the enemy outright" and not "instant kills the enemy model"
    and so now im facing marine armies packed with force weapons that they bought for 40 points chasing down my 200 point monsters.


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    clearing up my 1st post. i know there is a disscussion thread on this topic. im just asking here if GW has made a ruline one way or the other yet?

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    Senior Member Abraham Lincoln's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon252 View Post
    does anyone know if there has been a ruling from GW as to weather or not forceweapons "slay outright" tyranid creatures in synapse and where i might find the ruling.

    im asking because my local club is currently going with the side that YES force weapons do kill my guys outright because Gw uses the wording "slays the enemy outright" and not "instant kills the enemy model"
    and so now im facing marine armies packed with force weapons that they bought for 40 points chasing down my 200 point monsters.
    In the FAQ, games workshop made it clear that Synapse applies to ALL instances of instant death, not just weapons that double toughness, even against weapons with rules that cause instant death regardless of strength value.

    If I were you, I would print out the FAQ and bring it with you to all your games. It is really vital. Wait... well, I know I haven't done this yet, but, I can explain... Okay, I'm just lazy. I'l, get around to it though.

    And as for weapons that "kill outright" being okay, but weapons that "kill instantly" are obviously not allowed.... that is rules lawyering to the extreme. I don't even know how to argue that... it is just so obvious I can't put it in words. Damn Space Marines. Like they don't already have enough advantages! (I would put an angry red face here, but the smilies aren't working)
    Armies:
    Tyranids: 2500 pts
    Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
    Witch Hunters: 1000 pts

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    Based off the wording Lincoln is right and if you want your monsterous creatures safe I think bringing the FAQ sheet is the way to go. However, complaining that one model in the army can kill a monsterous creature is pretty sad. First it has to hit you, and then it needs to wound, which isn't so simple. In about 12 attacks it will get one wound and their model is going to cost about the same as your mosterous creature if they tool it up to survive long enough to engage you. And your bug is more deadly against any enemy, and more resilent too, for near the same price...plus taking a librarian takes a chaplin away from the rest of their army. As a nid player it is pretty rediculous to worry about force weapons, just make sure that model can't get into base to base with your big boys...that is why we have gaunts, lictors, and raveners.
    Last edited by nichodemus10; December 29th, 2006 at 23:37.

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    Game Over boys macewind's Avatar
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    Its clear that no instant deaths are allowed against nids.

    Strait forward and simple. What about a plague sword though? It says if you take a wound, you must then roll another die and on a 4+ your killed outright no matter how many wounds you have. This isnt instant death per-say so what rule counts here?

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    This is a very contentious issue. Firstly read the 2nd & 3rd points in the latest Tyranid FAQ. Everyone should have a clear understanding that the "Instant Death" explicitly states being wounded by a weapon with double or more the victims toughness. Tyranids in synapse are immune to this. I should also note that that the Wraith Cannon mentioned in the FAQ uses "Instant Death" in it description.

    Now closely read the "Force Weapon" description on page 46. The description states "slays the opponent outright". No where in the description is instant death mentioned. This is not instant death it is a psychic attack. They have to inflict a wound then pass a psychic test. This is no easy feat for a str 4 model to do.

    I wouldn't sweat about force weapons too much. A decent brood of 'stealers should wipe him. Run some spineguants as a screen and frustrate him by swamping him with gaunts.

    Remember independant character have to be in base contact to attack your MC ( and your tyrant doesn't if he has a guard). Alternatively kit your tyrant with 6 WS 6 init and implant attack & squish the problem first.
    Last edited by Zerling; December 30th, 2006 at 01:30.

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    Senior Member Misanthrope's Avatar
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    Hi, thought I'd drop my two cents...

    "Instant Death" as the title of the rule deals with the relation between weapon or model strength vs. target toughness. If a weapon's strength is twice the toughness of the target, Instant Death rules take place. If not, it doesn't take place. The ability of Force Weapons to kill opponents outright is a psychic ability and has nothing to do with strength/toughness comparisons, and nothing to do with the Instant Death rule which, like I said, deals only with strength/toughness comparisons. Atleast according to my interpretations of the rules. If the weapon is not killing a unit outright because of double strength, and if Instant Death is not mentioned, then it is not Instant Death, and abilities that negate Instant Death do not apply.
    Takka n' Wakka's Dakka Attacka! 33W / 6L / 1D

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    I Agree.

    Force Weapons still work on tyranids, even after the recent rules clarification.

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    one quick reply to misanthrope: in the FAQ it also stated on the next heading "what about weapons that cause instant death that have no strength value." this next heading from GW says that the instant death effect does not just come from a weapon having double the strength as the target's toughness, but indeed other circumstances do apply to the instant death effect.
    the question i am seeking an anwser (to which ONLY GW can supply) is weather a force weapon is one of those circumstances that triggers the instant death rule albiet thru a psychic power or if indeed a force weapon falls under a special ability.

    if it mearly triggers instant death, then synapse counteracts it, however if it's a special ability then poof! ...dead TMC.

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    Senior Member Misanthrope's Avatar
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    Hm... are there any other examples of no-str weapons that cause Instant Death? (Not just "kill outright", but specify the words Instant Death)?
    Takka n' Wakka's Dakka Attacka! 33W / 6L / 1D

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