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Good day to everyone! I've just started with my Eldar army (and will just start playing Warhammer 40k i.e. I'm a real newbie at this) and was thinking about employing some cqc specialists. As I read the codex I found myself torn between the Howling Banshees, Striking Scorpions and Harlequins. I've read through their rules and all but I'd really like some advice from more seasoned players. Which of the three would you suggest and how would you suggest that I play?
From where I am, around 60 or so percent of the players are Space Marines along with a decent number of Tau and a few Eldar and Necron players. I imagine that they would be pretty useful against the Tau though some people tell me that I should just stick to a shooty army since Marines may just eat my cqc specialists because of tougness and armor save differences (though I have a hard time thinking that this is all that it would take to actually win in an assault).
Thanks a lot in advance!
Banshees are great versus Marines and their equivalents (MEQ in the parlance of the game)...they are also great against low toughness armies, but their ability to overcome armor saves and strike first is their greatest asset. They are extremely fragile and must be supported with another squad.
Scorpions are essentially and all-around one of the best units in the codex. They excel versus hordes of low toughness & low armor save armies, but hold their own versus everything else...especially with an exarch with either a biting blade or a claw. I'd have 2 X 10 man squads if you can swing it.
Harlies are expensive, but are a combination of the two...take the kisses so you get rending and the shadowseer to help protect them against shooting. Because they have rending they can be effective versus elite high toughness and armored foes, but because it is rare they are safer versus lower toughness and lightly armored guys.
Honestly, if you want to go close-combat (CC) heavy, get a full 10 man squad of them with the exarch/upgrade characters and see what you like by playing some combat patrol games. each one is "designed" for a certain situation (though scorpions work for 90% of said situations) so there are pros and cons. Consider padding your list with storm guardians to soak up power-fist hits from Space Marine (SM) sergeants.
P.S. shining spear rock, but have to be used to break an assaulting units back. If you charge (or are charged) by a unit you aren't going to kill that turn they will die! But, they are uber-nasty!
"Orcs are what happens when Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles grow old and bitter."
I think that banshees or scorpions are better than harlequins because you can take the wave serpent (and 10 banshees+wave serpent isn't much more expensive than 10 harlequins). Banshees are probably the best choice, especially if you take a farseer that can "doom" their target when they charge.
The three units are meant to be used fundamentally differently in how they are moved and used. You'll likely want the unit that fits what you want to do.
Scorpeons are jungle fighters. Use that infiltrate and move through cover. They're meant to either put very early pressure on shooty armies, to create a region where melee based armies can't safely move into without getting charged by the scorpeons, or just to generally threaten targets in an opponents backfield (popping a Basalisk on turn one with the shurican pistols is quite the treat!)
They are no longer truely a generalist unit as the power claw is reduced to s6 from s9 and they lack their haywire grenades. So keep them away from monstrous creatures, dreadnaughts, and you just have to let the land raiders go.
Also scorpeons typically need support. Personally I don't field scorpeons without shining spears as well, and preferably a falcon with fire warriors. All three units will generally be hitting about the same time. The falcon drops of dragons to pop vehicles and screen melee units off the scorps (until they're ready) and the spears and scorps charge units at the same time for decisive victories and sufficient support on a massacre move. They also serve to keep the dragons alive.
Also I always use the claw. I just don't get why people like the biting blade.
Harlequins can be used in falcons, but I feel their best use is in following up a more ground pounding army. Especially one with a lot of cheap infantry. The troops can keep the enemy from getting in range to rapid fire on the pricy Harlies, and the veil will keep long range fire off of them. They are priecy but incredibly effective against pretty much any target. Even dreads and monstrous creatures are nervous.
Banshees, as people have mentioned, are good for transporting in waveserpents and for taking out power armor. Their strength is low so try and give them doom support when possible. They are better in a wave serpent than scorpeons because of that extra fleet move. In 4th edition I find it hard to assault with scorps out of a waveserpent well. That extra d6 movement is very nice. And not just for getting into combat but also for gettiing into it in the best possible way. such as charging so that all of your models are within 2" but not all of theirs are (unless you think you can kill them all.)
In my opinion try to have multiple skimmers and targets nearby if you're trying this. A lone waveserpent is asking to be shot down.
Well I personally am workin on a 1500 point list and want to run one squad of scorpions and one squad of banshees. This is my reasoning
Scorpions are like everyone has said VERY well rounded. against space marines their ws/s/#of attacks is hard to match, even for space marines. I dont think that they are strictly for jungle fighting though. They can infiltrate enemy lines and tie up shooters. I think they fit in well in jungle or urban terrain....like the Eldar version of Rangers/Navy Seals.
Banshees always have that one thing that bugs me about them....low str. It forces you to hit a lot so you roll more wounds witch is why i agree that a farseer on jetbike that can keep up with the waveserpent they are in can doom the unit they are after. On the other hand when you do wound you are killing ANYTHING (assuming there is no invul of course).
That is what I think you should do. Implament their defferent styles to combine into one grand close combat attack. Set up the Scorps to tie someone up the flank with the Banshees. or visa-versa. I think these two units together are very deadly!
Well yes when I say jungle fighters I didn't mean like with the Kroot.
I suppose I should call them area terrain fighers but that seems so technical.
lol, I got ya man. I am going to start calling Striking Scorpions the BAMF's of the Eldar. That covers everything hahahaWell yes when I say jungle fighters I didn't mean like with the Kroot.
I suppose I should call them area terrain fighers but that seems so technical.
And if you dont know what a BAMF is just look up Dane Cook
If your looking for a cc unit to back up your army I'd advise fortuned scorpions (although they can infiltrate on their own without it if you want).
Banshees and Harlequins are usually more offensive units that need support from other cc units. Scorpions will be able to operate on their own and protect the rest of your army if thats what you are looking for.
Thanks for the replies! I was just backtracking a bit and it seems that people usually use the farseer as HQ choice and have them support the Banshees or the Scorpions. I was actually thinking of replacing the farseer and warlocks with an autarch and use the remaining points on more soldiers. I actually don't feel comfortable with leaving a farseer unattended or in the middle of the battlefield with the unit it's supporting. Would it be ok if I left it like that or would the farseer, Banshees/Scorpions combo really make the difference (again, please bear with me!) ?
Autarch for countercharge or farseer. Both are effective and neithers better than the other. Pick whichever you like more and whichever fits your army best.