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  1. #1
    Senior Member Tygra's Avatar
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    Devilfish Questions

    Well, Ive been playing Tau for a round a month now, and Im a tad confused by the devilfish rules. It all started when I was playing a tournament when my opponent, also a tau player, told me that my fire warriors had to start the game in the devilfish that I had bought for them.

    For a start, where in the rulebook is this rule mentioned, I couldnt find it, but I wasnt prepared to argue at the time.

    Also, If I buy a squad of firewarriors a devilfish, does the devilfish take up an additional troops slot, or does it occupy the same one as the fire warriors?

    Can you buy a devilfish without dedicating it to a unit? I would have thought so, because it is a unit entry under troops, so can you buy it as a troops choice, and then use it as a non-dedicated troop transport? There is nothing I know of in the rule book to say exclusively I cant, and the 40k rule book doesnt exclusively say, transports have to be bought for squads, or else it wouldnt mention non-dedicated transports.

    Surely there has to be somethig ive missed, that seems like quite a big hole in the rules, and very un-Games-Workshop like if there is no anwser.

    Thanks in advance

    Dan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tygra View Post
    told me that my fire warriors had to start the game in the devilfish that I had bought for them.For a start, where in the rulebook is this rule mentioned, I couldnt find it, but I wasnt prepared to argue at the time.
    You don't have to start them in the devilfish in a standard game (although you may want to), and you won't find it because its not in the rulebook. They must be placed during deployment together (i.e. at the same time). That might be the confusion.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tygra View Post
    Also, If I buy a squad of firewarriors a devilfish, does the devilfish take up an additional troops slot, or does it occupy the same one as the fire warriors?
    No, it's a dedicated transport, and thus can only be used by the unit that bought it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tygra View Post
    Can you buy a devilfish without dedicating it to a unit? I would have thought so, because it is a unit entry under troops, so can you buy it as a troops choice, and then use it as a non-dedicated troop transport? There is nothing I know of in the rule book to say exclusively I cant, and the 40k rule book doesnt exclusively say, transports have to be bought for squads, or else it wouldnt mention non-dedicated transports.
    Dedicated transports can only transport the unit they are bought for, although there was/is a bit of debate over this over on ATT. I think it's pretty cut and dry though, it says transport next to its entry, not troop. So its a transport, and therefore I believe it is dedicated.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tygra View Post
    Surely there has to be somethig ive missed, that seems like quite a big hole in the rules, and very un-Games-Workshop like if there is no anwser.
    HA! HA! HA! You made me laugh for the first time today! Thanks a bunch.
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    Senior Member Hive Fleet Cobra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y'he Sha'is View Post
    Dedicated transports can only transport the unit they are bought for, although there was/is a bit of debate over this over on ATT. I think it's pretty cut and dry though, it says transport next to its entry, not troop. So its a transport, and therefore I believe it is dedicated.
    hum i see what ur saying here. but i think it "May" say transport because it is one.
    iam not trying to attack you in any way iam just saying that it says transport so people know its a transport. the part where u said it says "transport, not Troop" i think can go the same with the firewarriors. sure u need one. but it dosent say troops on them. it may just be showing the fact that its a transport....*thinks* dose any one have a guard codex with a transport in the troops section?*thinks of the armoured company.. =D*

    Agian, iam not trying to attack you. iam not even sure, i just beleve that u dont have to have a squad with it because a store manager said that, but thanks for reading this lol..
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    Son of LO The_Giant_Mantis's Avatar
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    I believe he means the fact that it says 'transport' at the front of the unit name.. it does this with transport units in most of the codex, presumably to mark that they are dedicated transports. The land raider, which is not neccesarily a dedicated transport, but has transport capacity, does not include this signifier.

    I'll admit, it does look really ambiguous and isn't nearly clear enough.. but you would doubtless provoke many arguments and allegations of poor sportsmanship. Plus, if you follow that rule, you open the door for every army to do the same thing with their transport vehicles.

    Now I see why they changed the format for the Eldar Codex.. it's complicated and silly, but it gets rid of conflicts like this.

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    I know you aren't being mean or nasty...

    The whole argument goes that to the left of each entry in the Tau codex is a little description of the units (HQ, Troops,..., etc.). This is the FOC slot that you select that unit for.

    For instance, for Firewarriors, you may take them if and only if you have a troop slot open... and then there are other things you can do to upgrade them (i.e. devilfish).

    To the left of the devilfish is a word: Transport. There is no such thing as a transport FOC slot, so you cannot take them as a single unit. Furthermore, you would destroy every other codex (well, at least that I own, anyway) by setting a bad precident.

    Furthermore, I tried and I couldn't do this at a RTT (haven't yet gone to a GT), and the list I had brought was illegal (had 2 empty devilfish). So for me, while it might be a bitblurry, it isn't that blurry when you take it in context of 40K as a whole.

    Just my opinion.
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    Just my 2 cents on the issue of a devilfish as a troop choice: I feel it can be taken, for a number of reasons
    1) It indeed does say "Transport: Devilfish Troop Carrier"... however it does not say "Troop: Friewarrior Team" or "Troop: Croot Carnivore Squad"
    2) All stand alone units are given an icon based on thier area in the force organization chart. For example Tau have HQkull, Elite Skull with cross, Troops: Triangle, Fast Attack: lightning, Heavy Support: Explosion.. It has the little Triange next to it as per troop indicator (triangle is right above engine). While this may not seem big, look at it this way. In the Imperial Guard Codex, the Chimera does not the troop icon (two arrows flanking the name pointing up), Nor do any of the transports from the Space Marine Codex. <-- In my eyes this is the strongest reason to think It can be a stand alone troop choice.

    On a semi-related note #2 can be proven or diproven based on the same logic using the Imperial Guard Codex. I havent studied it too heavily, but do Conscripts/Armoured Fists take up a seperate spot on the FoC? I ask because they both have the indicator for "^troop^"

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    I have an army of the tau empire too, and i too had the same situation at first. Not about the matter of that troops must start inside the transport or not, but with the layout of the codex itself.

    The layout gives the impression that the devilfish can be bought seperately, if you want and want to spend a FOC slot on it.

    so at first i thought that for a legal army a group of firewarriors and a devilfish was all that was needed. using 2 slots.

    Altho i don't have an official ruling i now have the oppinion that a devilfish is bought as a dedicated transport.

    A dedicated transport does not take up a slot. so 2 units ueach with a dedicated transport would only take up 2 slots, not 4.

    A dedicated transport must be put onto the playing field at the same time as the unit it is bought for. it must not nesseceraly be set near the unit, nor does the unit it is dedicated to have to start in it.
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    Senior Member Tygra's Avatar
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    So are there any non-dedicatated troop transports in any of the codexes? Because if it mentions them in the 40K rulebook that they exist, surely there has to be at least one non-dedicated troop transport in the game?

    If there arent, then surely this is the strongest example of one as it has a troop choice triangle.

    Thanks for the help

    Dan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tygra View Post
    So are there any non-dedicatated troop transports in any of the codexes? Because if it mentions them in the 40K rulebook that they exist, surely there has to be at least one non-dedicated troop transport in the game?

    If there arent, then surely this is the strongest example of one as it has a troop choice triangle.

    Thanks for the help

    Dan
    Landraiders and Eldar Falcons can be used to transport troops but don't have to be dedicated. I'm sure there are others, I just can't think of one right now.

    If you'll notice in the Space Marine codex, each stand alone unit or vehicle has a symbol next to the name. The rhino, razorback, and drop pods do not, so they can't be bought seperately and used on their own without an infantry type unit dedicated to them.

    However, the devilfish does have a symbol next to it and no mention in the entire codex of it being a dedicated troop transport.

    So, if you use the SM codex as precedent, then two FW squads w/devilfish will use four slots in the FOC. And they can be purchased and operated seperately without troops to haul around. I'm not sure why you would want to do that, but you could.

    Personally, I use devilfish as dedicated transport, and will continue until something offical comes out.
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