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Perfect Pathfinder Loadout

4K views 11 replies 7 participants last post by  Rikimaru 
#1 ·
Please forgive me if I'm duplicating an earlier topic, but my searches haven't turned up anything relevant. I'd like to have a discussion about the ideal pathfinder loadout, assuming one can afford to field a full squad of 8. Do you include any rail rifles? How about upgrading to a shas'ui? What kit would he carry (drones, bonding knife, ...)? How much do you upgrade the devilfish? Warfish? With/without seekers? Always used in conjunction with the pathfinders (e.g., skimmer shield, late-game objective grabs after pickup) or mostly as an independent operator causing trouble?

Tangentially, I'd be interested to know if anybody likes using them in small games, say around 1000 pts.

I ask because I'm considering a relatively expensive set-up in 1500+ pt games -- including an outlay for a skyray, if that colors things at all -- and I'd like to know if it seems reasonable in your average all-comers list. (But if different kit makes sense against specific opponents, that'd be interesting to know as well.)

8 pathfinders, 2x rail rifles, shas'ui, bonding knife, target lock
Devilfish, targeting array, multi-tracker, decoy launchers
Total: 236 pts
 
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#2 ·
While this is purely my (un-game-forged) opinion, I suspect that pathfinders are probably a bit expensive in 1000pts games, simply because they don't have enough offensive power on thier own, and there isn't enough in the rest of your army to make effective use of the markerlight support.

I would say that generally you are better off using them plain, with maybe a shas'ui with target lock if that floats your boat. The rail rifles look too expensive to be of much use, IMO, and serve to make the unit (even more of) a target, especially if your enemy is a MEQ. Not only that, but you loose a markerlight as well.
More markerlights = better, so grab the full squad and stick them in cover.

For the 'fish, I'd say splash out on a warfish, and use it as a light tank, annoying your enemy and getting in his way. Remember, it's not a scoring unit, so if your enemy shoots it, they aren't shooting at something more valuable, and potentially scoring.

Anyway, those are my ponderings on them, which I think are fairly sound. I'm sure you lovely Tau folks will let me know if they aren't ^_-

-t.
 
#3 ·
Pathfinders,
1500pts and up go for it, really the benefits offers offered by ML's are to good to be ignored.
I would never advise taking rail rifles, why they are middling strength and PF are BS3 that means 4+ to hit so thats 50% average miss rate per turn, so you could be looking at one hit per turn with two wasted shots thats 44pts a turn wasted and for what one str 6 shot, now compare this to the advantages of just one ML hit for a unit of FW's (upped BS to BS4), the thing with PF squads is to be truly effective they need two things
(1) Numbers to increase the instances of ML hits BS3 means 50% miss rate. so 8 PF means 4 ML hits on average (more than enough) but reduce this by even two models and the effectiveness is reduced really badly.
(2) numbers but this time for ablative wounds, a full squad in cover has every chance of contributing to the whole game, a reduced squad will be running far quicker which renders the unit useless (heavy weapons).
I usually take a full 8 man squad with Shas'Ui upgrade and TL (the two targets a turn is to good to pass up) with a warfish (SMS, TA, multi and DL's) I drop the PF of into cover, or if viable I use the scout move and gain the first turn shot, and use the DF as a bonus tank, really for just over 200points the unit is a bargain, it offers so many advantages to any unit they ML for and the warfish is really underestimated, so for 1500pts I would whole heartedly sa go for it, but just make sure you use cover and make sure you have lots of other units distracting fire from them
 
#4 ·
Pathfinder : My vision of it (I still didn't have played with my Tau army)

1- The pathfinders

Markerlight is h*** of a weapon and the good news is that PF are full of it. So, for myself, I wouldn't bother paying for rail riffle if my intention is to use them as makers. If, instead, you want them to become a snipper unit, I would recommend to use a Marker Drone as they will be able to spend the marker of the drone (networked). Yet, if you want a snipper unit, use Sniper Drone squad instead, they cost less and will do the same job with a stealth field generator and NW marker light bonusses.

2- The devilfish

The devilfilsh exist first for delivery of pathfinder if you want them to be delivered somewhere. But is it usefull to deliver them somewhere ? Unless you playing on a huge table or your are playing against Iron Warriors, I don't see the use of delivering your PF.

So why a devilfish ? I would say first to guide your deepstriking suits and drones and to carry seekers missiles behind the ennemy line, to side or rear shot tanks.
 
#5 ·
Not nearly as much "controversy" as I was expecting. ;) Here are the principles I've so far distilled. Please comment if you disagree!

* Maximize vanilla pathfinders. Take 8 if at all possible.
* If you want rail rifles, take sniper teams. Pathfinders are for markerlights.
* Take a shas'ui for a little extra LD help on priority tests.
* A target lock can be helpful, but it isn't critical.
* A bonding knife isn't necessary. (No one's mentioned it so far, at least, so I assume it's dispensible.)
* Equip the devilfish to cause maximum trouble as an independent operator. This means warfish (SMS, TA, MT, DL). It will rarely be used to transport the pathfinders themselves, who should succeed primarily on smart deployment and use of the free "scout" move.

Anything else? Contradictions?
What about seeker missiles? If one invests in pathfinders, does this also mean one should strive to include at least a few seekers? Does the skyray become that much more attractive, therefore?
 
#6 ·
Anything else? Contradictions?
What about seeker missiles? If one invests in pathfinders, does this also mean one should strive to include at least a few seekers? Does the skyray become that much more attractive, therefore?
I would take the bonding knife, but I am an ex-space marine player. I had pathfinders in my 1500 point army but I ended up changing them an honor guard since I already used an ethereal (ethereals are a debate on their own). Not being able to move and shoot was too limiting. Pretty much only got one or two turns (the 1st usually) of shooting with ML then they were soon killed or had to move to see anything.

With the SR it was fun to shoot massive missiles at once but they are better for monsters and light vehicles. I have wasted many trying to pop a Land Raider with an army fitted with max seekers. I have also tried out the strealth suits w/ ML drones but it didn't work for me due to the extreme cost.
 
#7 ·
MindRaked, the strategy of using a marker drone in the squad with networked marker drone is (essentially) useless. If you'll kindly read the end of the markerlight entry on page 29, you will see that markerlights cant mark for markerlights. Good in theory, bad in practice.

If you're going to take the Shas'ui team leader, you might as well take the bonding knife. Markerlights are pricey and handy, don't let them run off.

A VERY important use of the Pathfinders is the Marker Beacon. I use this Devilfish function frequently, in fact, I usually take the pathfinder squad for the Devilfish rather than the other way around! This way, when fighting MEQs with heavy weapon squads, I can Deep Strike a 3 suit squad of TL plasma rifles and fusion blasters right next to said squad with great confidence and utterly vaporize said squad in a single round. Plus, the Warfish is a helluva tank, skimmer+tank shock+7 S5 AP5 shots (if you do it right). I usually tank shock 1-3 squads per turn with this baby and then pepper them with smart missles and burst cannon rounds. Also quite useful is the Scouts rule in Escalation, this allows my Devilfish to be on the board regardless of the scenario!

Pathfinders are secondary to me, but the PF Warfish is great
 
#8 ·
the Warfish is a helluva tank, skimmer+tank shock+7 S5 AP5 shots (if you do it right). I usually tank shock 1-3 squads per turn with this baby and then pepper them with smart missles and burst cannon rounds.
I am just interested to know how you tank shock 3 units in one turn, they would all have to be clustered tight together, i have never seen or heard of this being done.
Also quite useful is the Scouts rule in Escalation, this allows my Devilfish to be on the board regardless of the scenario!
Huh are your trying to say to me that your placing your pathfinders DF on the table using the pathfinders scout rule, because you cannot do this dude, only the pathfinders themselves get the scout rule, this means if you want to deploy them on the table at the start of a game using escalation using the scout rule you have to place them on the table without the DF, the DF stays in reserve.
Units with dedicated transports cannot begin the game on the table so if you wanted to deploy them in the DF they would have to use the reserves rule as normal and would not have the scouts rule available, your playing the unit illegally.
 
#9 ·
ah, thanks for the tip. Regardless, the DF Marker beacon is quite useful to me, and I said 1-3 tankshocks per turn because, in the lucky occasion, I have managed 3 units tankshocked. The guy was a little inexperienced and was using mass footslogging marines, so I managed to plow through his advance. Formidable, but no use under massed fire
 
#10 ·
Bit off topic, but I could see it being possible to tank shock 2-3 units of infantry-heavy, Close Order Drilled Imperial Guard, especially near their deployment area.

Sorry for the bit of off topicness. :)

I've toyed with the idea of the Marker Beacon/DSing units/Positional Relay for the HQ myself a time or two. It seems like it'd be a fun thing to use, simply because you could catch your enemy unawares with a precise landing and the likes.



 
#12 ·
Yeah but its going to be so rare an event thats its not really a reason to be pushing as a benefit, tank shock is always a benefit I am not saying that but any Devilfish can accomplish it not just the PF's
As for Deep strike yeah the re-roll of the scatter dice is nice but remember it does not increase your chances of actually arriving only the chances of landing where you want, and it can actually make the roll worse and the DS'ing unit has to be in LOS of the DF.
A precise landing is possible but it does not make it any less possible you could end up with dead XV8's.
I never DS XV8's simply because it is to fraught with danger for the XV8 unit and they are simply to valuable to risk, Drone squads I will but only rarely and I usually use the stealths infiltrate to gain position.
The best load out for a pathfinders DF is the Warfish, give it MS, TA and multi and let it go hunting.
 
#11 ·
it's well worth the risk. With re-rollable scatter dice, your chances of landing on a squad are pretty slim, and landing that much anti-MEQ power next to your opponent's long ranged, hard hitting unit, and obliterating said unit, is so very worth it. The unique deployment Deep Strike offers is nice, but the surgical strikes will easily pay for the unit.
 
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