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Thread: Versus Orks

  1. #1
    Member Hunter Killer's Avatar
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    Versus Orks

    So, I'll be playing Orks sometime soon. I know the Ork player is going to do Speed Freaks. I suppose you can just assume that his list is "Take All Comers" and come up with ideas accordingly. It's not a lot to work with, but any advice is good advice and will be much appreciated.

    Here's my thoughts, because I hate when people post asking for advice without first trying to think through something themselves... I've never played his army, but I did a quick look through some lists and tacticas and am talking from those:

    I was thinking a set of three heavy Gunfexes, seeing as the Trukks and Bikes are open topped and both the Venom Canon and Barbed Strangler can really screw with them. I figure their also good for the Looted Russ he's fielding. For additional vehicle destruction and threat removal (Plus fast Synapse!), I've got me a winged Tyrant with Talons and a Warp Blast. Considering additional Venom Cannons via Warriors as well, but are they worth it and/or necessary? Spead Freaks are transport heavy, I hear, so I'm thinking they might be (And their double shot S6 or S7 w/Toxin aren't bad even if that isn't the case. Hits up to AV13, right? Should pop a Trukk or two.)

    In addition, I've heard that Orks try to stay shooty against the 'Nids, so I'm going to field a ton of Hormies and a few broods of close combat Warriors for Synapse. Stealers are a must, of course, and I was thinking about a Broodlord/Lictor for both psychological effect and the fact that I can tie up some of the more powerful shooters in close combat quite nicely by Infiltraiting/Deepstriking.

    'Tis a basic plan, and doesn't alter the list I posted much (Which is good, cash wise)... Will it work? It's not set in stone and was typed up after some quick reading. Feel free to call me a newb and tear me a new one. I'm definately open to learn, so it's all good. Just remind me to put on the fire suit if you're going to bust out the flames.

    Last edited by Hunter Killer; January 18th, 2007 at 05:13.
    "They are coming! I feel them scratching inside my mind. Scratching, screaming, roaring, so many - so, so many voices. They're coming for us - flesh and blood, body and soul"

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  3. #2
    Son of LO tarzen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hunter Killer View Post
    So, I'll be playing Orks sometime soon. I know the Ork player is going to do Speed Freaks. I suppose you can just assume that his list is "Take All Comers" and come up with ideas accordingly. It's not a lot to work with, but any advice is good advice and will be much appreciated.
    Speed freaks are a fun army to face because of all the special rules. My advice, look them up, and read about them. GW used to have their rules posted, would check but am at work so gotta keep it kinda brief.

    Here's my thoughts, because I hate when people post asking for advice without first trying to think through something themselves... I've never played his army, but I did a quick look through some lists and tacticas and am talking from those:

    I was thinking a set of three heavy Gunfexes, seeing as the Trukks and Bikes are open topped and both the Venom Canon and Barbed Strangler can really screw with them. I figure their also good for the Looted Russ he's fielding. For additional vehicle destruction and threat removal (Plus fast Synapse!), I've got me a winged Tyrant with Talons and a Warp Blast. Considering additional Venom Cannons via Warriors as well, but are they worth it and/or necessary? Spead Freaks are transport heavy, I hear, so I'm thinking they might be (And their double shot S6 or S7 w/Toxin aren't bad even if that isn't the case. Hits up to AV13, right? Should pop a Trukk or two.)
    Stay away from VCs on warriors. you need TS, ES, and BS for them. Coupled with 2 warriors with DS and you have a mean little unit ar around 100pts for synapse and pinning, and simply mopping the floor with his transports. Give them Bioacid and ST and now you're talking=)

    Hordes of gargoyles, flesh gaunts, hormies, and throw in 3 zoes with synapse and WB and now you're talking. 2 Gun fex with spine banks, a HT or two (shooty or CC will get it done) Remember that in CC, you won't be getting any saves better than a 4+, so be careful. All your guns except for devourers will pretty much negate his saves, but see below on devourers.

    Most of the SF lists I've seen tend to try and get into CC as fast as possible (which can really be a bain for nids if you aren't ready for it, or have deployed wrong). Just deploy back and you should be fine.

    Make sure you get the charge-just common sense but with an 20" assault with troops in vehicles, you need to be careful. If he slogs the CC, and uses vehicles for shooting, a particular way to go is devourers on gaunts. One of the only times you'll hear that suggestion. Reason being is that you get 2 shots, and can stay at 13+ inches away. Move back, shoot, move back, shoot, move forward shoot, charge! Easy massacre.

    In addition, I've heard that Orks try to stay shooty against the 'Nids, so I'm going to field a ton of Hormies and a few broods of close combat Warriors for Synapse. Stealers are a must, of course, and I was thinking about a Broodlord/Lictor for both psychological effect and the fact that I can tie up some of the more powerful shooters in close combat quite nicely by Infiltraiting/Deepstriking.
    not a bad notion, but I would recommend staying away from GS. Point sink for what you're wacking. for the same price as a GS, you can get 2 2/3 FBs. Hormies are good for counter charging. Gargs are just mean against orcs: shots they dont get a save against, that can kill almost all their vehicles, and in CC you get 3 attacks before they get to strick back, all for a great price. As to the BL, the are great if you are playing a newb. If the kid knows how to play, your BL and GS will be dead by the end of turn 1, turn 2 at latest from CC.

    'Tis a basic plan, and doesn't alter the list I posted much (Which is good, cash wise)... Will it work? It's not set in stone and was typed up after some quick reading. Feel free to call me a newb and tear me a new one. I'm definately open to learn, so it's all good. Just remind me to put on the fire suit if you're going to bust out the flames.
    nah, your ideas are just fine, but you really dont want to try and out do the orcs in CC with your specialists. If you can keep your warriors, Zo's and HTs and carnies away from big mobs, you'll be fine. Just remember to focus on one unit-kill it or cripple it. No unit left above 5 men, then simply outnumber and devour. An orc unit of 10 can put the hurt on a HT if they single it out. average 15 hits, 2 wounds at 4+ saves no matter. throw in a powerclaw (likely scenario) and you've got an additional 2 non savable wounds, all at an orc cost of around 80pts or so. Just be careful.

    Me, I prefer to outrange all my enemies, thus I play shooty lists, my advice comes from that point. CC can get it done for you, but you are fighting units that have better WS and more attacks, that can field in units that are fearless, at around the same points as your basic troops. Be careful=)

    Good luck!
    My armies:
    16,000+ of Eldar (only need flyers)
    7,000+ of Nids (want heirophant)
    6,000+ of Space Marines (need rever titan)
    4,400+ of Cygnar (all models for the faction)
    1,500+ of Legion (just started)

  4. #3
    Member Hunter Killer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tarzen View Post
    Stay away from VCs on warriors. you need TS, ES, and BS for them. Coupled with 2 warriors with DS and you have a mean little unit ar around 100pts for synapse and pinning, and simply mopping the floor with his transports. Give them Bioacid and ST and now you're talking=)
    I like that idea. Pie plates of death. I dub thee "Pie Warriors"!

    I'm guessing the Bio-Plasma and Talons make them viable for close combat once the shooty fun is done? Good idea, methinks. That's, what, 4 attacks once the Orks close plus all the shooty I was doing before then?

    Hordes of gargoyles, flesh gaunts, hormies, and throw in 3 zoes with synapse and WB and now you're talking. 2 Gun fex with spine banks, a HT or two (shooty or CC will get it done) Remember that in CC, you won't be getting any saves better than a 4+, so be careful. All your guns except for devourers will pretty much negate his saves, but see below on devourers.
    Are Dakkafexes useful against the the Orks/Kult of Speed? I figure so, since you're talking quite a bit about Devourers and the Dakkas would be getting an arseload of S6 Devi shots. I was considering throwing in one or two as an alternative to my close combat Warriors and/or the Pie Warriors with the BS/DS. Good idea?

    Most of the SF lists I've seen tend to try and get into CC as fast as possible (which can really be a bain for nids if you aren't ready for it, or have deployed wrong). Just deploy back and you should be fine.
    I didn't realise this. The SF list I looked at in the Ork forums looked rather shooty minus the Power Claws, and I'd heard it said by a few Ork players that they like to remain ranged against the 'Nids. So SF is a close combat army most of the time? Say he decides to go speed shooty instead... What would be ideal tactics in that case?

    To paraphrase what you said in your last four paragraphs, just to see if I got it: You're telling me I should deploy back as far as possible and try to shoot him, softening his bigger guys for the charge (that I must initiate or face painful death). I should try to make sure that everything is fairly damaged and then go in for the kill. Out maneuver and out shoot.

    Speaking of out maneuver... I have a few ideas for that.

    First, I was thinking about spliting the Gaunts and using a brood to assualt as soon as possible. The one brood would tie up a few boyz, and would either make him leave a squad behind to deal with the Gaunts (likely), pass the Gaunts and leave things in his rear (possible), or stop the entire army to deal with the threat (very unlikely). Gaunts die, it's fine because they split his advance. Gaunts win or get left alone... That's fine too because I now have a unit that can hit him in the rear (That is, if they don't go IB on me... Still, that's too bad a case... These Gaunts would be a sacrificial lamb and bait. Nothing more).

    Second, I was thinking about leaving my main force dirrectly in front of him, albeit behind cover. Stealers and Warriors would screen Carnifexi, waiting for the main advance while I'd swing my Hormies around to the side, hiting him in the flank. That way, he either has to break off the advance toward my big nasties to deal with them, or he has to take the pain of the Horde in his side and rear. Hive Tyrant would go with the Hormies for Synapse and to provide a tantalizing reason the break the advance towards my main shooty (Carnifexi and the BS/DS Warriors).

    I'm basically trying to say I'd like to split his army by attacking from two angles, giving him the choices to either break his advance in two or charge one of the two groups while leaving the other open to mess with him. He gets to decide to fight both groups at half strength, turn and assault the Hormies while getting shot to hell, or advance to the main shooty which would let me assault him up the arse. Good idea or no?

    Me, I prefer to outrange all my enemies, thus I play shooty lists, my advice comes from that point. CC can get it done for you, but you are fighting units that have better WS and more attacks, that can field in units that are fearless, at around the same points as your basic troops.
    Again, not something I realised. Thanks for clarifying that!

    Good luck!
    I'll need it. He's more experienced than me (Though I believe I'm a decent tactician and I can think on my feet pretty well).
    Last edited by Hunter Killer; January 18th, 2007 at 10:59.
    "They are coming! I feel them scratching inside my mind. Scratching, screaming, roaring, so many - so, so many voices. They're coming for us - flesh and blood, body and soul"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ~ Hive Fleet Minotaur ~

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    Member kalender's Avatar
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    I haven't ever played vs speed freaks, but I know orks are a nightmare in CC beause they've got a lot of attacks, cheap models and the freakin choppas that won't let you save better than 4+.

    I've read that speed freaks are very dependant on their vehicles, and targetting them is a priority. Luckily for us, they're open topped, which makes our VC that much more effective.

    I'd try to blow his transports up, then drop pieplates on those slooow walking orks They'll take ages to get anywhere. And to blow his looted russ, just deepstrike a brood of gargoyles on his back, and blow him up with a lot of bioplasma

    I'd field two walking tyrants with TS,ES,VC and BS, and two carnifices with ES, BS and VC. That way you don't need to get close, and you can outrange and outshoot him. The problem with WB is that you need to get close, and you don't want to be anywhere close to orcs with your expensive MC.

    The tyrants should target the "softer" vehicles and the carnifices the tougher ones. They shouldn't have any transport that stands that firepower.
    Last edited by kalender; January 18th, 2007 at 13:01.

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    That sounds like a good plan. Think I should drop the Stealers for the Tyrant? That'll free roughly 320 points, and I could use any extra for more gaunt fodder. I want to keep my Talon/Winged Tyrant for Synapse and... Bait. Sort of. I'm hoping the Gaunts and the Flyrant look tastier than my shooty, so he goes for them and lets the shooty rip into him.

    What do you think of my movement plan? Seems to me like a lot of this battle will be kill the transports and funneling the boyz where I want them to go. Does my idea work for that?
    Last edited by Hunter Killer; January 18th, 2007 at 15:20.
    "They are coming! I feel them scratching inside my mind. Scratching, screaming, roaring, so many - so, so many voices. They're coming for us - flesh and blood, body and soul"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ~ Hive Fleet Minotaur ~

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    Senior Member Abraham Lincoln's Avatar
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    Good advice so far, except that I wouldn't use a flyrant against speed freaks. Think about it - why pay such a ridiculous price for added speed, when your opponent is speedy and cc-oriented anyways?

    Here are a few Orky tips to remember:
    1) Low strength - every ork player hates this fact. Put +T on your fexes and they are suddenly impervious to basic orks. Just watch out for power klaws, which are everywhere...
    2) Choppas - these are very annoying. Don't put carapace on any TMC's that you are planning on throwing in combat.
    3) Open-topped vehicles - every Tyranid player's dream. VC's will shine here.
    4) Beware the Battlewagon! - Any self-respecting speed freak army has one. It can pump out a ridiculous amount of fire, and can be upgraded to be close-topped.
    Armies:
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    Imperial Guard: 1000 pts
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    I know that the Flyrant is a point sink, but I'm worried about two things: That my gaunts aren't going to have fast enough Synapse and that my "Gaunt Fake Out" maneuver isn't going to work without a target tantalizing (and dangerous) enough to get the Boyz to turn away from my shooty or split their forces to deal with both threats.

    The whole Gaunt/Flyrant trick is based on the fact that I believe my opponent is experienced enough to realize the Gaunts and Flyrant won't be able to stop a great deal of his Boyz. I want him to think it's going to be a quick way to make back his points so he runs for it, neglecting my shooty or slicing himself in half so less of his Boyz crash into said shooty. An expensive trick, I suppose, but I figure that if my "Flyrant Bait" keeps my shooters doing their jobs, he can indirectly make back his points.

    That said, I can see using a walking Tyrant instead, with VC/BS/Toxin/ES to support the Gaunts (Or maybe less... 2 ST's or 2 TL Devi's?). I'm not trying to go all the way across the board, so maybe Gaunts' speed won't be an issue. As long as someone can assure me of that, the Flyrant will be exchanged for a Tyrant with guns instead. It's still a tantalizing target, so the plan still works as long as Synapse won't be an issue.
    Last edited by Hunter Killer; January 18th, 2007 at 22:05.
    "They are coming! I feel them scratching inside my mind. Scratching, screaming, roaring, so many - so, so many voices. They're coming for us - flesh and blood, body and soul"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ~ Hive Fleet Minotaur ~

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    For a speed freaks army, you don't need rending I don't believe. Genestealers seem like a point sink to me, and a very bad one at that. GS are anti-MEQ units ... metric craptons of shootynid fire / pie plates and lots of gaunts are anti-lowarmor units, and that's what you're dealing with vs. speed freaks.

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    Member Hunter Killer's Avatar
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    Once I got to talking to him, I started to realize that Stealers aren't needed for this whacking because there's nothing tough enough to justify them. As long as I get the charge, my Hormies should be able to match him kill for kill because his saves are terrible. Further awesomeness is added to the BS/DS pies... Lots of saves that his Boyz will most likely fail.

    This is sounding good to me, actually. As long as I get the charge with my Gaunts and stay shooty with the rest I should be fine. Oh, and the Trukks... They need to die quickly. Doesn't sound like a problem with two Gunfexi and some Gun Tyrants. I especially love Tarzen's Pie Warriors... That sounds like they'd be just damn awesome for counter charging.

    I still haven't heard anyone's thoughts on my idea to split his forces with a bit of bait.
    "They are coming! I feel them scratching inside my mind. Scratching, screaming, roaring, so many - so, so many voices. They're coming for us - flesh and blood, body and soul"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ~ Hive Fleet Minotaur ~

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    Member kalender's Avatar
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    I guess that he won't be afraid of splitting his forces because he has the speed to get them back together. However, blowing up his vehicles will make his forces arrive at different speeds. ('cause inevitably some will survive the first round of firing).

    In this matchup you don't need to go chase him because it's him who will go to you, so synapse coverage won't be a problem. If you think you can't get the charge (e.g if any vehicle survived and is close to you), put your dirt cheap spinegaunts/termagaunts in a line in front to suck the first charge, then counter with the hormies.

    I tend not to rely on warriors, as the people I play with love AP4 weaponry, but in your case I'd go with them, as the orks severely lack high AP or high BS

    good luck!

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