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After losing a battle to my first time experience with Chaos, I started to wonder what I did wrong....and one of them was because; little knowledge of Chaos, underestimating
So I'd like some general advice(not army lists) against them to prepare me for my next Re-Match
*I use 8 scarabs, 11 warriors, 12 warriors, 1 lord w/ orb and Veil, 3 Destroyers, and 5 Immortals, which is the Flying Circus strategy/list.(I also did poorly using this strategy and Id be grateful if someone can help a first timer "Flying Circus" user like me, to be able to use it efficiently.
Thanks in advance
It rather depends on what type of chaos marines you're playing against.
The tactics to beat a Thousand Sons army are completely different from the tactics you'd use to defeat an Alpha Legion army which is different from how you'd beat an Iron Warriors army which is different from how you'd beat a World Eaters army.
It's just such an adaptable codex that without more info on what the guy uses, the only advice I can give you is 'be afraid'.
"You challenge me knowing that I am Xiahou Dun!?"
As XD has advised, Chaos is too wild a beast to box into one style of play.
None the less, generally speaking Chaos have very low manouvrability. Necrons, on the other hand, have incredible movement. So it could be a case of using that to your advantage, strike him where he isn't expecting it while using scarabs to tie up his really damaging units.
We'll need to know more to advice specifics.. but.. the Chaos codex is so varied it makes the Necrons green with envy... what, did you think that gauss was green because it looked cool? E-n-v-y.
Ok, his army consists of The Chaos Battleforce box and 4 Furys
So its: 1 Rhino, 3 Chaos Bikes, 1 Chaos Marine squad, 1 Khorn Berserker(Terminators) Squad, and the 4 Furys. *He splits his Terminators into two squads of 5.
(My first battle with him) Most of the time he kept his Rhino stationary. He advanced his terminators to be able to reach my scarabs very soon. Attempting to weaken his advancing horrors, my 1st warrior squad shot at his terminator squad and killed only 1. Squad 2 was shooting at his berserkers and wiped only 2 out...Now that was bad for me! That definately wasn't enough to keep them from advancing and thats when I realized "Damn so they ARE strong.." Soon enough he got to my poor little scarab swarms.
His chaos marines stood right by the Rhino the whole time, because he knew I was gonna veil my 5 immortals and lord within 12-16 inches too close to the Rhino...in which I DID, and it was a very bad mistake I made.. So he ended up killing 2 immortals and wounding my lord. I veiled back in fear, to my phalanx formation, and by the time i did, he had already slaughtered all my scarabs. He was ready to charge in and bash my warriors into scrap metal. Along the sides, My 3 destroyers and his 3 Chaos bikers have been having a LONG battle, with neither one of them dead.. Unfortunately the battle couldn't continue because we had to move out of the table because of family dinner..
He won by default. I lost more points than he did.
I know I had alot of errors/mistakes, especially with such a flexible "Flying Circus" that I didn't use properly
Last edited by Nod; January 24th, 2007 at 00:51.
Technical victory because of family dinner! NOOOoo.
If there's one thing that necrons can't stand, then it's family dinner.
ok. first of all, he can't just use 4 furies, that's illegal. If there are five, then sure, if not, there's a problem.
Next of all, he can't have 2 squads of terminators and just one squad of marines. That's an illegal list, he needs at least two troops.
Next, he's using terminators. Terminators are a big big problem against necrons because they represent lots of 2+ Saves which necrons have trouble shooting apart from the heavy destroyer.
In close combat, fair enough you're going to lose to Khornate terminators. All those power weapon attacks is bad bad news for necrons, just remember that you still have the resorb.
Overall, there's too many doubts into the legality of your friend's list, which leads me to believe that there's probably problems with how he's playing also (rules wise).
You should go through all the stages of the game and rules step by step together because, from the lists you've provided us, while the terminators are a problem, I don't think you're disadvantaged at all. You have a lot of fire power with which to smash them before they reach your lines.
Now thanks for the info on the illegal stuff he did!! Dam no wonder I sensed something fishy as the battle passed on...
This was also his FIRST ever, battle..so that could of also been the thing. We also had our experienced Tyranid player to watch us and help us incase he missed any rules/steps.
We talked and turns out my friends(chaos player) was accidentally mislead..
Hope this wont happen again.
Anyways, Got any idea on how I should setup my units? I'm just using the ol' Phalanx formation for my Flying Circus. and Is there a certain formation for flying circus?
*Another thing to add, In the future Im going to split my scarab squads into two (5 and 3), and the squad with 3 will have disruption fields. Ill Deep strike them to get close enough to assault their Rhino and hopefully Glance AND immobilize or Blow it up. Ill use my immortals to aid my destroyers in trying to destroy his chaos bikers or I get my immortals to veil and annoy their chaos marine squad, while I let my warriors turn his termies into dust before they reach us.
Hmm.. I don't see what problem the rhino is holding for you.. it should have no offensive capability which can offend a necron player.
Also, never ever forget your warriors have gauss weapons which makes taking vehicles against necrons a folly. Your basic warriors can always score glancing hits on vehicles!
Splitting the scarabs is a good idea, but remember that they can still assault the same target. Personally, I'd pile them all into a squad that's giving you the most headaches and then forget about them as you deal with the rest of his army.
Against just a rhino, it's probably not worth giving your scarabs D.fields. I don't mean to patronise, but also please bear in mind that you can't assault from deep striking.
Basically, i think that a separate and destroy policy is the best way to win this match. As the necron player you boast superior manoeuvrability. What does that mean? I don't know.
But seriously now, it means that you should be able to pick which battles are fought and when.
Personally, the I still think that the terminators represent the greatest threat you your break dancing boyos. So i would scarab them up to keep them out of the way until you've deal with the rest of the army. Then defeat the real problem at your leisure.
He gets into close combat? No problem - always remember that you can veil OUT OF close combat and then rapid fire his ass to kingdom come.
With terminator armour and no AP2 weapons, it's going to be a long haul.. but you make him throw enough dice and the 1s will start to appear.
Then you can dance the victor's victorious dance of victory, in a victorious manner with the victorious breeze of victory in your hair.
Alternatively, you can wait for a necron player's assessment rather than some jumped up annoying Chaos player (me).
OOPS! I did a mistype. I meant that he had a terminator squad of AND A khorne berzerker squad, not two terminator squads split into two.
He also didnt not use his Furys in the battle, but he soon will(He has 7)
By the way. should I have an advancing wall(line) of scarabs in front of my whole phalanx
Or should I put them in my left flank of my phalanx?
Its a bad idea to put scarabs in front of your warrior mass for a number of reason-
1) Dispite crappy stats scarabs are pretty tough in CC (huge number of wounds)
2) Anything that gets them in CC will block line of sight for your warriors
3) If the scarabs lose in CC (which is highly likey) an enemy can potentialy (depending how close they are and depending on who's turn it maybe) sweeping advance into your warriors thus tying them up.
5 Immortals for flying circus isn't really enough, bit meh, it can work.
Secondly best way to use it is to voD at and angle to the enemy rather than head on. Why? because it makes poor scatter rolls more forgiving and is less likely to have every unit in the enemie's army to unload into them.
Oh and no matter what you do you are going to have massive problems with the terminators, its simply a necron weakness.
On a side note while heavy destroyers are AP2 be very careful if you take them. They cost a bit too much and have a tendency to die easily (because they cost too much not many are taken).I actually advise against this. While it will give you 2 squads instad of 1 scarabs strength is their mass. While technically 2 units add more options to a battle plan they will also die a lot easier.Originally Posted by Karmoon
Kepp the scarabs as 1 unit and use them to tie up rear elements of armies, such as havoc squads and basically any unit providing fire support.
We battled and It was a Solid Victory for the Necrons!
Prettly close battle, I could of phased out.
Oh and he also bought a Defiler, which really did give me lots of trouble. Anyways I just glanced and annihilated it on my 3rd turn =P.
I wasnt really prepared for this meat grinder battle because I didnt expect him to just suddenly have a defiler before the battle..and I had the feeling I was never gonna win against him..