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Which weapons?

  • Two DA shuri cats

    Votes: 59 58.4%
  • Diresword and pistol

    Votes: 8 7.9%
  • powerwapon and shimmershield

    Votes: 32 31.7%
  • none

    Votes: 2 2.0%

Dire Avenger Exarch Options Poll.

9K views 45 replies 29 participants last post by  LordLink 
#1 ·
Same as banshees but what to give your DA exarch. I was going for powerweapon and shimmer shield, but then thought that maybe the diresword would be better. THEN I started really thinking and wondered if getting into CC with these guys was really worth it! So maybe the two cannons would be best? Help!
 
#3 ·
IMO, the diresword and pistol is the best option. Sure, you could get 2-3 shooting attacks more for 5 points less, but with the amount of shots that the squad already put out those 2-3 attacks wont do much diffrence. Also, consider that if anything survives the innitial bladestorm, it is a) possibly MEQs, and b) either in CC with your squad next turn or c) standing within charge range of your squad, but you cant shoot at them because of the bladestorm. There is no reason at all not to want a power weapon in that squad, is there? And though direswords are neutered versions of SM force weapons, they ARE still capable of swiping an IC or a MC in one blow with a little luck.

Direswords > everytning
 
#4 ·
Well, I like to use my DA to shoot, and then lock in HtH enemies, while my banshees countercharge the enemy. It's a bit hard on the DA, but I feel that this way they are worth every single point spent on them.
As a second best choice, I like the idea of smaller units with bladestorm and 2 catapults.
 
#7 ·
Shimmer shield and Power weapon. All the way. Two avenger cats is a bit of a waste considering the volume of shots you're already getting, and the diresword is really only useful if you're character hunting, which they're really not all that suited for. In CC, a full 10 man squad with a shimmer shield and defend is tough as nails, and one HELL of a good anvil to support the hammer of a Banshee, Shining Spear or Harlequin charge into some hard-nut units. Even by themselves they're pretty badass. I had 2 unit of DAs get dug in with two space wolf packs (including the wolf lord and his librarian) and when the game ended they'd hung on for 3 turns, and killed off everyone but the librarian with almost a full squad left for him to handle. Sure if they bladestorm and their target is still around, it's likely an MEQ. But honestly, the added utility is just too damned good to pass up, in my opinion. Keep these guys out of an easy firing line, and either shooting or getting into the thick of it with a CC unit right behind them and they are beasts.
 
#8 ·
twin shuri-cats for me please!

I primarily use my DAs for quick strike or swoop-n-grab forces. So I'm either dropping them out of a serpent and letting them gun away against lighter troops, or I'm zipping them up to an objective near the end of the game.

I also tend to use the DA in conjunction with additional fire support (if needed) so if their bladestorm doesn't wipe out the intended target, a volley of shuri-cannon or scatter lasers usually will.

If the DA get into CC, I've probably timed something wrong (or just rolled like crap, as per usual)
 
#9 ·
Mine's a tie between shuricats and the shimmershield. I never take one squad of DA, always two or three with at least one of those set up with the shimmershield and power weapon with defend.

If your in range to hit something with two groups of twenty shots, hitting with an extra twelve per group never hurt you as long as your not fool enough to have everything hang on those sixty four shots.
 
#10 ·
Depends how you want them to play really. I personally use twin shuriken catapults because i have a waveserent to get them places quickly, so shooting is quit certain.

Dire Avengers arn't really suited for close combat, they can hold a defensive in combat using the shimmer sheild and defend exarch power which is good for keep an opponent tied up but this is really only useful if they are a front line infantry for you. Useful in holding objectives...or at least contesting them.

Diresword and pistol offers you the bog standard squad leader option where he typically is built for combat. Quite useful I guess if your opponent survives initial shooting and you need to kill off the last dregs in an assault.
 
#12 ·
Shimmershield isn't that great. It only gives protection against hidden power fists and enemy HQ's. HQ's are handled better with the diresword then the shimmershield so that only leaves hidden powerfists. I'd prefer the extra 5 points and attack afforded by the diresword.

Twin-catapults don't matter much to me. It gives 2 more shots (3 more than my pistol) and that will kill nowhere near as many enemies as a power weapon or diresword. My dire avengers get into cc almost every game and its nice to have that kind of punch.

Dire Avengers can get outgunned, they are no match going toe-to-toe with tactical marines and the diresword lets you tackle them head on. 3-4 attacks coming out of the exarch is handy for when you do hit cc (usually after charging a bladestormed squad).

PS: I voted Diresword and Pistol
 
#14 ·
Shimmershield isn't that great. It only gives protection against hidden power fists and enemy HQ's. HQ's are handled better with the diresword then the shimmershield so that only leaves hidden powerfists. I'd prefer the extra 5 points and attack afforded by the diresword.

Twin-catapults don't matter much to me. It gives 2 more shots (3 more than my pistol) and that will kill nowhere near as many enemies as a power weapon or diresword. My dire avengers get into cc almost every game and its nice to have that kind of punch.

Dire Avengers can get outgunned, they are no match going toe-to-toe with tactical marines and the diresword lets you tackle them head on. 3-4 attacks coming out of the exarch is handy for when you do hit cc (usually after charging a bladestormed squad).

PS: I voted Diresword and Pistol
the shimmershield also helps against rending attacks from genestealers, and squads armed with alot of power weapons/fists like vet squads, command squads, death company, terminators, and especially obliterators. Their minus one attack, invulnerable save and relatively cheap points cost makes them great for holding those expensive elite units up. Put them in a position in cover 18 inches away, near one of those types of units and your opponent will 9 times out of 10 come after you with that unit, and you get 2 turns of shooting at either that unit or another, then you get to hold that unit up for 2 turns. Or charge them at obliterators, i love doing that, they only kill 2 a turn if they're lucky. Those oblits or terminators or any other expensive elite squad will not make their points back that game. With a farseers support they'll hold any unit in the game up almost indefinately
 
#13 ·
Two catapluts.
Combined with a ful squad and bladestorm... just lovely.
The other options are viable to but IMo avengers are supposed to bring shuriken death to all. The above combo is perfect for it.

Hope it helps
 
#15 ·
Two Shuriken Cats all the way on this one. Although I do like to put both bladestorm and defend on an exarch if I can. Reason being, most people use bladestorm when they are about to be charged. So when they lose that attack it can increase the survivabliity of the unit!

I only have two units of them but plan on running 4 later. The next two will be shimmer sheild/power weapon/defend/bladestorm and mounted in a wave serpent and use them as a CC unit. Get close, shoot it up, then assault.
 
#17 ·
The diresword and pistol combo still takes away your catapult, you only get the one shuriken shot, the only way to keep the standard catapult is to not upgrade him at all. I think the diresword combo and shimmershield combo are tied for best, depending on what you're using them for. The 2 catapults looks the coolest but it isn't really nessecary and having nothing is wasting potential, though if you really need to conserve points, its the best option.
 
#18 ·
the pistol only loses one shot. And its still affected by bladestorm for 2 shots whereas shimmershield your exarch doesn't benefit from bladestorm at all.

So the pistol gives an extra power weapon attack. An extra 1(2) pistol shots, the direswords ability and 5 more points to spend on your army.

Again much better than an invul save for cc.
 
#19 ·
Depends what you're up against, and what else is in your army. Normally, in your average battle, it won't make much difference, so you can just choose what you prefer.
 
#20 ·
Well IMHO it all depends on what purpose you have in mind for the unit.

If you want it shooty (like I) then take the two cats. and bladestorm.
If you want to get CC you can take two good options.
The shimmershield is handy for it's use agianst all those special CC squads (bodyguard units and alike) combined with Defend you're unit can stay in a fight of a while.
Even though the Diresword should not be dismissed as well. The 2 X handweapons aproach gives you another attack and we should not dismiss the ability to instant kill. Though this chance is rather slim you're opponent will never like to have to roll for these tests and they will suddenly find you're unit a lot more irritating (personal experience).

so all options are vialble and good, just keep in mind what you want to use it for.

Hope it helps
 
#21 ·
2 Shuricats is alright, but the Diresword is just that much better for only a few more points.
Bladestorming is all fun, but most opponents will still get an armour save, whereas if you Bladestorm (With only a few less shots due to the pistol) and then assault you get extra CC attacks, ignore armour with 4 of them on the charge, AND you reload next round even if you're still in CC.

The Diresword is great against multi-wound targets (Tau battlesuits)

Plus, I think I might have mentioned this before, but I rarely see any games where CC isn't involved between troops, so why not have the upper hand?
 
#24 ·
Bladestorming is all fun, but most opponents will still get an armour save, whereas if you Bladestorm (With only a few less shots due to the pistol) and then assault you get extra CC attacks, ignore armour with 4 of them on the charge, AND you reload next round even if you're still in CC.
But again people are viewing a diresword purely on its instant kill ability. I prefer to see it as the extra power weapon attack as it's biggest advantage.
I think we're saying the same thing here.:yes:
 
#22 ·
There are good arguments for all three gearsets, heres my two cents on the subject:

Basically it boils down to how many points you are spending on the squad. if you dont have a lot of points to spend and thus have a small squad (say six models) then its good to just give your exarch the 2 Avengercats and the bladestorm power, this lends the unit maximum shooty power for minimal points allowing it to do what its intended to do.

If, however you have more points to spend and are buying both exarch powers for a full squad of 10, then its better to give the exarch the power weapon and shimmershield as the 5-up save combined with defend and the high WS powerweapon will make the squad quite resilient to assault, which with its short ranged guns is quite likely to happen, especially if your opponent has an assault oriented army. also with the full squad of ten the exarchs firepower becomes less necessary as with that many bladestorming Avengercats its more important for the squad to have durability than a bit more firepower.

The diresword I would only take if I was CERTAIN that my exarch was going to encounter a multiple wound model in assault, say with the "Godzilla" style tyranid army with 8 TMC's for example. or an LatD army with lots of spawn and big mutants. without this certainty the diresword just doesnt compliment either of the exarchs powers or the squads function at all.

Too bad you cant go diresword and shimmershield, or diresword and avengercat. that would be slick.
 
#23 ·
But again people are viewing a diresword purely on its instant kill ability. I prefer to see it as the extra power weapon attack as it's biggest advantage.

And honestly how often do your avengers saves get ignored in cc? none of the assault oriented armies regularly use power weapons except for certain chaos armies (and fellow eldar).
 
#25 ·
Hi there good to see my initial banshee option poll is sparking up new ideas:) .

Anyway, ive got 2 squads of DAs and one has 2 catapluts. I was thinking of a planax with the 2 catapluts at the back and power weapon or dire sword at the front.

Would this be the way to go or more double catapults?

The idea is they both fire till someone gets near then the front squad charges or gets charged the the second squad comes in the next round to clean up .....

Whats the best option?
 
#27 ·
I think it really depends on your style of play, and how many DA's your planning on using. if you only have 1 or 2, then twin Shurkin Cats all the way, but if more, then a dire swords unit may be able to counter assualt and keep your Shuriken Cats out of combat. IMO the dire sword is a much better choice than power weapon and shimmer shield as it has the extra attack, and the shimmershield is to expensive. most of the time your avengers will only be facing 2-3 power weapon attacks, and with defend, thats even less.

Bladestorm and Defend are a must!
 
#28 · (Edited)
The problem with the Diresword is that it doesnt compliment anything else the Avengers do. dual avengercats compliment bladestorm, which compliments shooting. Shimmershield compliments defend, which compliments defense against assault. The diresword is like a crippled force weapon, in the hands of a model which is hardly a close combat specialist. Sure he has WS5, but only S3 and two attacks, (3 with the pistol and CCW) and most multi wound models are going to have T5 or better, (which he will need a 6 to wound, if indeed he can at all) AND will most likely be close combat specialists themselves. (Ogryns, Spawn, Big Mutants, TMC's and the like).

Even then, assuming the Exarch manages to wound said beastie, said beastie then gets to make any invulnerable save it might get, and must fail its own leadership test, which for most things I can think of that might fall into the catagory of potential diresword fodder, most would have at least Ld8, and many could be upgraded to better. so at best a one in three chance of failing the test. More than likely, he will only be taking one wound.

The shimmershield, on the other hand, provides a MUCH more tangible benefit by allowing the WHOLE SQUAD to take an invulnerable save against close combat attacks, which is the major weakness of Avengers. And this doesnt just mean power weapon attacks either, were talking about Rends, Monstrous Creature attacks, and possibly some psychic powers. think about it, how many other armies can boast the ability to give all of their troops an invulnerable save? and when combined with the Defend power, reducing the number of incoming attacks to begin with, and the fact that the Exarch is only a "Squad Upgrade" character, and thus can be the last model selected for casualty removal, the shimmershield makes Dire Avengers highly resilient against assault, which is good because they will be holding off your opponents assault specialists that much longer.

Okay /rant off :yes:
 
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