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In times gone by, the humble guardian was the mainstay of an Eldar Force. In the new codex they have been superseeded in terms of a basic troop by Dire Avengers which makes their only use as a squad for a Heavy Weapon, which brings me to the second problem. Unless you want to spend lots of points on a Bright Lance/Missile launcher for your guardians which will only have a 1 in 2 chance of hitting anyway, you want to take a multipul shot weapon like the scatter laser or shriken cannon. However, a squad of 3 jetbikes with a shriken cannon is nearly twenty points cheaper than a guardian squad with a scatter laser and is far more manoverable. So is this the end of guardians?
Guardians were never intended to be used as a main troop choice. Thats why they've been changed in this codex. They were supposed to be used as only last resort units, representing a lack of the aspects on the craftworld. I think guardians are still a very viable unit, just not in the huge quantity's that they used to be used in.
But if you think about it in the new codex there hasn't actually been any changes in the Guardian squads to make them worse, in fact they've gotten a little better due to the ability to now fleet of foot with a heavy weapon platform, be mounted in a waveserpent and still remain relatively cheap. Sure there are units better than the Guardians but the squad has their own strengths a weaknesses, so viable? Yes, they are still highly viable in any army.
Remember, Jetbikes are more manouverable but are more static in shooting and Dire Avengers are excellent against infantry but can't deal with vehicle. Gaurdians can deal with both infantry and vehicles but have less survivability than both other units. As with the general theme of the Eldar it's a case of finding the link for each unit to support each other.
i think ur right, i don't think you'll be seeing many guardian squads at all, i haven't fielded them since the new codex, and i haven't seen any of the other 3 eldar players i know field them either. For every niche that they fill there's another unit that fills it better.
If you want something that's anti tank take a wraithlord with a brightlance, it has a better BS and will last longer than a squad of guardians. Even jet bikes with a couple of cannons in their squad are better anti tank units because they can get around the back's of enemy armour. I think i've killed more tanks with my jetbikes under the new codex than i did with guardians w/ a brightlance under the old codex.
If its anti troop you want take pathfinders. For the same amount of points as a guardian squad with a scatter laser and conceal they have a better kill rate and more staying power as they'll almost always have a 3+ cover save. They have a better kill rate even if the guardian squad has a starcannon. Even dire avengers are better than guardians at killing troops even though they have a much shorter range.
If you want a cheap heavy weapon why would you take 10 guardians with a shur. cannon when you can have 3 bikes with a cannon for a cheaper price, thats more mobile and should never even get shot at with their 6 inch move in the assault phase.
If you want a mobile fire base you could take guardians in a wave serpent with a anti troop weapon, but dire avengers would be far more effective for the same points. Or you could give the guardians an anti tank weapon to try and get to the side armour of tanks, but you could do the same with fire dragons for less points.
I just can't find any reason why anyone would field guardians, unless someone wanted to play a fluffy ulthwe army. I know 2 eldar players that play ulthwe and they don't even use guardians, they use a lot of dire avengers.
Last edited by xinsanityx; January 29th, 2007 at 18:19.
Im going to take a guardian squad with a warlock.
The reason for this is that I want a spiritseer for my wraithlord. Having to buy 3 of them with a farseer is about the same points for 1 with guardians but gives you more men/shots/targets. I think having 3 warlocks is a waste anyway since they all must take the same powers and the powers arnt stackable.
I duno, I dissagree with all of you.
I take three squads of ten armed with either a scatter laser of shuriken cannon. I also normaly pair them with a wraithlord. With this combination I can put a huge amount of pressure on my opponents giving them the option of ignoring my guardians or doing something about them.
There is no way anyone is going to want that amount of firepower bearing down upon their forces and they will be forced to make a decision. Don't expect guardians to win games and turn the tides of battle, let your other hard hitting troops do that. Do expect them to act as a great firebase and an entity on the battlefield that simply cannot be ignored or overlooked.
I play with 40 ablative wounds...er 40 storm guardians. They can be very very effective. I keep a fusion gun and a flamer in both squads along with a warlock with enhance. They do very well for me as they WAAAAAAAGGHH!!!... er sorry, thats fleet across the board. My craftworld has issues to say the least. 2 games ago a bad scatter for teleporting termi squad of 6 got too close and didnt bother to shoot at one of my stormy squads because they are "only" guardians. One doom, 2 assault phases later i had lost 3 guardians and there were no termi's to be found. After that i had to explain that these are artists and such you were fighting, once they paint over your eye lenses your pretty much screwed. This squad later took an objective at the end of the game. Talk about usefull.
Almost every game the combination of the fusion gun and the witchblade brings down a tank of some kind. And worse comes to worse, they are good for making the enemy roll for targeting.
Also i enjoy watching the other guy choke on guardians while my more effective melee units line up for a nice juicy charge that they cant do anything to stop.
Last edited by Yurtalpus; January 29th, 2007 at 19:43.
Sick and Yurta:
Imho, the way you're using ur guardians, i think it would be much more effective to use dire avengers, they have a longer range, better bs, and better armour save, and the option to put out alot more shots, and they're better in cc. All that for 4 points more per model, and a squad of dire avengers ends up being only 30 points more than a squad of guardians as most people end up adding weapons and a warlock with a psychic power.
As far as taking the guardians to get a warlock with the spiritseer rule, i never had to worry about that, i always keep my harlequin shadowseer near my wraithlord for half the game, the other half i just let him take his wraithsight, i've only failed it twice so far outta 30 games or so. However, taking a guardian squad to get a spiritseer is something i overlooked and it would definately be a good idea to take a cheap squad of guardians to get the spiritseer if you don't have any other pskers in ur army, or u don't want ur farseer to have to babysit it.
Imho, Guardians will work in a battle, but there are other units that will work better for whatever role you have your guardians filling at the moment
Oh don't get me wrong, I field two squads of avengers as well, sometimes in serpents, sometimes not. The guardians add great flexibility to an eldar army, and also much needed man power.
I think the are under-estimated but I don't care. The less people use them the less people will be scared of them. I'll take advantage of that thankyou.
Thanks xinsanityx, I hadnt understood the wraithsight rule properly and thought only spiritseers could guide them! Now ive read it properly and can see ANY psychic unit can help them, spiritseers just increase the range by 6". So without wanting to hijack this thread, what exactly is the veil of tears power? I cant find it anywere! (the book says page 20-21 but this is obviously incorrect!)