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Dark Eldar broken?

5K views 40 replies 19 participants last post by  black cherry 
#1 ·
hey.. I was curious if you guys think that DE is over powerd slightly or if its broken I dont think it is but my friends do. (speed freakz and 'nids) Can you prove to them that DE isnt a broken army by /signing in a post and state your army please I apoligize for this I feel as it is unnecassary but, I cant think of anything else to prove to them that they arent broken or cheap. thank you so much for your time!
 
#2 ·
Agh... typical. Yeah, you'll always get people like that. What you should do is swap armies for a game, you use that guy's nids and he uses your dark eldar, then you completely trash him with those nids, and see if he complains.

Basically, no, dark eldar are not an overpowered army. We've got our units that rock (warriors, wyches), we've got our good units (ravagers, incubi, reavers, warp beasts, raiders), we've got our sort of alright units (mandrakes, grotesques) and we've got our crud units (scourges, hellions), like all other 3rd edition armies.

The raider rush was crippled after 3rd edition, and half our codex is really not up to scratch game-wise so I don't think anyone reall has a leg to stand on if they try to claim dark eldar are overpowered, chaos, eldar and space marines are far more powerful armies than dark eldar, after those 3 armies, there is tau, necrons nids, guard and dark eldar on an even playing field... then the inquisition, then orks, except for spead freaks which are up with dark eldar and stuff. Speak freaks are the most competetive orks in games. So yeah, basically, I'd say dark eldar are equally powerful when compared to both nids and speak freaks. If you swap armies and get smacked, then it shows that you should change your list, or they should change theirs, if you win easily, they'll shut up. A lot of people just refuse to update their tactics when playing against dark eldar, sticking with their same old methods that work against other armies even when it's clear that they don't work... why can't they just adapt insted of whining? I can tell you that I will never play against nids the same way that I play against daemonhunters, so why should they treat dark eldar the same as space marines? It makes no sense.
 
#8 ·
A lot of people just refuse to update their tactics when playing against dark eldar, sticking with their same old methods that work against other armies even when it's clear that they don't work... why can't they just adapt insted of whining? I can tell you that I will never play against nids the same way that I play against daemonhunters, so why should they treat dark eldar the same as space marines? It makes no sense.
I think this hits the nail on the head. I think most people don't know how the dark eldar play so they just use the same old tactics they would use against any army and apply it to dark eldar. Wrong!!!!. Dark eldar need to be treated a lot differently. You can not play the dark eldar like any other army so why should you not have to play against the dark eldar differently too? Dark eldar are all about attacking and making the assaults. If you dont understand how to counter dark eldar tactics then you are going to lose. Players just need to take the time to learn how the dark eldar play and then they will be able to understand how to defeat them. Until then, they can expect to lose.
 
#3 ·
no they aren't

I don't play dark eldar, but I've played (and lost several times) against them. When I lose its usually due to my taking insufficient numbers and not being able to kill all the warriors fast enough to claim objectives.

There is nothing broken about the list. Certain flavors of Chaos and SM sure...you can make cheesy Necron and eldar lists too. You could actually argue that DE were underpowered (or at least I've hear people try to to.)
 
#4 ·
I guarantee that if someone beat your friends with, say, Necrons... or Tyranids... or Witch Hunters.... then said army would then be the next target of their "broken" cries. They sound like sore losers to me, and nothing more.

Dark Eldar are not broken. In fact, they are one of the armies who need a revamp the most, as they are getting left behind in the times. They have only a few "great" units, and a couple good ones, but the rest of the units in their army are, on a competitive level, pretty much useless. In comparison, you can use just about every unit in a Space Marines army, or a Tyranids army, on a competitive level and still be good to go.

They are not broken by any means, and you should tell your friends that. The army swap idea is a good one, too - borrow your friends' armies and let them borrow your DE, then get some advice about those armies on here, then crush them with their own armies.

The army itself is rarely broken. It is simply that the player is too good for their opponents, so the opponents, being the sore losers they are, whine about the army.



 
#5 ·
I've heard those cries as well. Mostly because of how fast my Master of blades and archon with incubi cut though his demon prince and termis. But that was like 500 points in that one uni. No dark eldar is not broken nor overpowerd. They have some great units, aswell as some not so great units. Right now I'm trying to find uses for hellions and scourges. I like the army swap idea would be fun to play with your friends armies. It would make everyone a better player as everyone would have more understanding of the other person's army.
 
#6 ·
Hi,
I think that you don't have anything to prove here, I mean that you have chosen your army, your friend has chosen theirs from the "supposed" balanced game system of 40K and there should be no real advantage between races (in theory at least.) Its the application of how they are played that makes the difference, not the race.
I don't think that giving your opponent your "lucky marbles" to play with will really prove anything as you both won't know the rules as well as your own and this will give a very biased game result.
The best advice that I can give is for you and your friend to learn more about how to play from the forums right here on Librarium Online. The more you know the better you will play and your tolerance will increase towards others and their armies.
In short no one can convince your friend of anything, he has to convince himself.
Cheers.
 
#7 ·
Well, what was your army build? Dark Eldar are fairly hard to deal with for Tyranids and probably orks if you make your army full of wyches. Invul saves and combat drugs are nasty, and a well-made archon is probably the second most powerful single character in the whole game if outloaded right (first being the daemon prince).

The Raider rush is still viable. 12 inch move, 2 inch deployment, d6 inch fleet, then six inch charge (not sure if wyches get a 12 inch assault). That's anywhere from 21 to 26 inch charge range, which is fairly good, especially against armies that simply cannot sit back in cover and shoot.

Yes, the Dark Eldar are in dire need of a codex (and I hope they get new models that focus more on evil and sinister looks than bondage freaks). The problem arises with all the little special rules of the Dark Eldar (apparently). There's this one DE player I've fought against who cheated like there was no tomorrow simply because he didn't understand his rulebook and there was no one in the area to ask about it (and he's a cheater :D).

The whole "switch army to stop whining" is not a valid argument against someone. Just because someone can play, say, orks well doesn't mean they can handle necrons.

Anyway, don't worry about the overpowered thing. They'll get over it. This was probably their first time fighting the dark eldar and they weren't prepared. I'm sure they'll do better two or three games down the line (like shooting up the flying coffins--errr, I mean, raiders, shooting up the wyches, assaulting the dark eldar warriors, dropping ordanance on the archons, etc.)
 
#9 ·
I remember once my army was claimed "broken" when 5 of my Grotesques "swept" 12 guardians and a warlock because of the "terrifying enemy" rule - it was an Eldar loving GW employee that said that.

Broken? The Grotesques? Bah, they actually got nerfed with 4th edition - I was actually playing at a disadvantage!

Ignorance, blind ignorance I tell you. Every one claims "cheese" and "broken" when you punk your enemy. Now that my store knows DE they haven't said it broken for 2 years now.
 
#10 ·
In my experience Tyranids just have a hard time against Dark Eldar, in the same way we have a hard time against Tau. Our army certainly isn't broken.

Here's what 4th Ed did for us (or to us):
PRO:
horrorfex counts as a defensive weapon
CONS:
-our bikes lost the unique ability to boost, now everyone can do it
-skimmers no longer block los (partially nerfing the Raider Rush)
-infantry no longer block los to infantry behind (the first nerfing of the grotesques)
-space marines ATSKNF was rewritten (the second nerfing of the grotesques)
-space marines ATSKNF was rewritten (partially nerfing the animus vitae)

I regularly play against orks and have one hell of a time beating them. Spead Freaks are supposed to be one of the more competative lists I'm surprised he's complaining.
 
#11 ·
CONS:
-sm got fear of the dark
-other armies are edging in on our speed and maneuverability
PRO
-disintegrators as defensive weapons

apparently every army that i play becomes broken.
hilariously though with my warmachine cryx this weekend; i lent them out to someone and when the game had ended i got the comment back: "you know, cryx aren't nearly as broken as you make them look..."
i used to get really annoyed by people saying how cheesy my stuff was but now just kinda ignore it.
 
#12 ·
If Dark Eldar are so cheesy and broken, why aren't they popular XD?

Well, see, most people have never played a Dark Eldar army, and do not know what to do, they just sit back and shoot, and when I hit front lines with my archon, they whine cheese over the immaculate 2+ invul. If they would have played the army more, it would be more viable for them to know what to kill.

If it is your first time, you might not know how amazing wyches are in CC, and totally ignore them, and then get ripped to shreds, Crying cheese whizz.
 
#13 ·
The horrofex counting as a defensive weapon means nothing, it it is still fired INSTEAD of another weapon. Oh, and we have had other pro's. Reaver assault move got added, and sometimes wych weapons work both ways, under the right circumstances.
 
#14 ·
The horrofex counting as a defensive weapon means nothing, it it is still fired INSTEAD of another weapon.
I disagree. I think if that were the case then there would be no need to classify it as a defensive weapon they could have just left the wording as is. I'm quite aware of the RAW argument and I still disagree with it.
 
#15 ·
Of course it has a point, think about it, on a ravager with disintegrators, it makes quite a bit difference whether its an offensive or defensive weapon, you're directly breaking a very clear rule when you use it as well as all your regular weapons, it clearly says "instead of", you can't just ignore this and say "well... they didn't mean it" thats just ridiculous. This rule is very clear, there is no hazy wording, it says what it says and untill something comes out that says otherwise, you should go by the rules, not by what you think the rules should be.
 
#16 ·
lol this is funny my friends and i were debating this just a lil while ago and the answer we came up with is a resounding no

dark eldar are not overpowered but they are a wild card there are so few armies out there that what the armie is and what it can do is widly unknown cept to those that play them this give a massive advantage to the dark eldar player and a shrewd general who know how to fully exploit that can make the armie seem extreme

the lesson here is you should not just learn your codex you should read the others as well, you don't have to know the ins and outs of an army but knowing the basic strengths and weaknesses of each makes all armies alot less scary :)
 
#17 ·
I actually thought that the 4th edition rulebook was a disaster for DE armies. Sure, allowing the DE player to assault directly out of raiders was nice. But that's something we already had in the old rules. Now, being shot down and immediately being pinned . .. that's no fun. It really hurts.

Now, back in 3rd edition, I played in a tournament in which I won all the games except the last, and here's the reason why: most people I played against either were not familiar enough with the DE, or did not have enough shooting in their army. An assault-oriented force can often be defeated by the DE, particularly if the enemy underestimates the amazingly powerful incubi.

Needless to say, the one game I lost was against an Iron Hands army that had about . . . 11 lascannons in it. It wasn't even close. Yes, the DE can be beaten. Very easily actually. If the enemy knows what they're doing, then they'll win, unless you can trick them, which is the whole point of the DE.

And on a side note, eldar jetbikes are now faster than reaver jetbikes. I always thought reavers were supposed to be the fastest . . .
 
#19 ·
Dark Eldar and Eldar jetbikes are the same speed. They can both move 12" and always move 6" more in the assualt phase. My friends did cry cheese with my incubi. They killed his termis in one turn. The only problem is that they get overwhelmed on me. My friends still cry about the wwp. But that is my gaming group we call everthing cheesy as a joke mostly. We call We'll be back rolls cheese rolls. But in no way is Dark Eldar broken or cheesy.
 
#20 ·
I've said this before, cheese does exist (that's right triumph of man!) but the word is abused, and it's used FAR too much. It has become a scapegoat of bad players who can't take a loss. "Umm.... I lost so it has to have been unfair... what can I complain about... umm... the dice were against me, you're army was unbalanced and... umm.... the terrain was unbalanced even though I placed half of it."

So just tell them shut the.....heck... up and stop whining - then thrash them with their own army or someone else's "balanced" army.
 
#21 ·
So the little box in the rulebook about eldar jetbikes applies to DE reavers too? I did not realize that. My mistake.

And cheese can be looked at different ways. That 11 lascannon army could be considered cheesy. But I could have just as easily played a 150 model tyranid army and ran all over him. I love unbalanced armies, they make for the most exciting games, IMO.

Now, where can I find 3 vindicators . . .
 
#22 ·
I wish that were true, but sadly, it isn't. The unit classifications in the rulebook have Reavers under "Jetbike", not "Eldar Jetbike". I wish that they had the 6 inch move in the assualt phase, and it would sure make sense since Dark Eldar are still Eldar, but I guess GW wants only Craftworld Eldar to be the -sarcasm-"masters of Anti Grav technology"-sarcasm-.

But it's all good. I still managed to slaughter 5 Tau units in a row with 5 Jetbikes in the last game I played. :D

Despite that, Dark Eldar are not broken. But they do need to be fixed.
 
#23 ·
Hi,
Please check the wargear book for the Reaver entry, which will take you to Jet Bikes that will eventually take you to the Rules book. That’s the long answer. The short answer is that all jetbikes use the same rules now and Reavers get the 6” assault move if they did not turbo for that move.
Unfortunately you will need all 3 books (Codex included) to see the true answer here!
Oh, and I agree with Dark Eldar not being busted just that some of our units have poor rules and so will be under ultilised until the new Codex comes out.
Cheers.
 
#24 ·
Ok, another thing about reavers. Now that we know they can move 6" in the assault phase, can an archon riding a bike use a punisher or 2 weapons? The entry in the rulebook says no, but as the writer of that space marine bike tactica, that part about bikes in the new rulebook was cleverly left out. So could I have an archon on bike with a punisher? Cuz that could be mad. With combat drugs, S6 power weapon? Crazy.
 
#25 ·
Nope, you still can't do that, it says specifically in the dark eldar codex that you can't. Yes, reavers do get the 6" move in the assault phase.
 
#26 ·
well according to white dwarf you can (hold two weapons and ride a reaver) also the 40k rulebook and assorted chaos, eldar and marine tacticas all state you no longer need a hand to control the bike it's a case of 40k rulebook overiding outdated dex

well anyway even if you stick with the old way (still effective and points sparing) the reavers are still the best bikes out there
 
#27 ·
well according to white dwarf you can....

for the record, white dwarf make mistakes... that being one of them (i fell for the same DE article).

suspiciously, in Oz the DE models were about to be sold via 'mail order direct' only, when that article about 2handed bike-punishers was published. considering the lack of DE material in the first place, DE white dwarf material was poor and ill-represented (remember the battle report when new Tau were released?). yuck.

anyways, bottom line is one handed weapons for bikes, bikes move 6" in assault phase wether assaulting or not, 5-7 incubi is sufficient, and trust the folks at LO:yes:

and you're right, DE bikes really are the best, especially combined with Web Way zoom-i-ness!
 
#31 ·
Umm... No they don't. ELDAR jetbikes (which includes dark eldar ones, see wargear book or just use common sense) can move 6" in the assault phase. All bikes can turboboost, perhaps that's what you mean, that used to be a thing that just dark eldar could do.

:ninja:
 
#32 · (Edited)
necronoob said:
I'm just going to say this so everyone knows but all jetbikes get the 6" move in the assualt Phase, it's on a FAQ sheet.
Tenozuma said:
Umm... No they don't. ELDAR jetbikes (which includes dark eldar ones, see wargear book or just use common sense) can move 6" in the assault phase.
Tenzouma is correct.

Also, can you name any other jetbikes other than those used by the eldar (and their spikey bretheren)?

[edit]

As for the punisher reaver combo, i'd go by the codex to be honest.

Bla blah newer printings blah blah the codex specifically states it cannot be done.
 
#33 ·
Also, can you name any other jetbikes other than those used by the eldar (and their spikey bretheren)?
well, new ravenwing master jetbike with high BS (read, bull...)plasma cannon , and necron destroyers/scarabs....

if THEY recieved extra non-assault movement, id have to kill myself. funnily enough, they dont, seeing as a)they aint eldar, and b)im alive to post this crappy reply:tongue:

ok i'll be quiet now, promise.....
 
#39 ·
Ok, well I looked at the space marine codex, which did not mention anything about usable weapons, it just referred me to the entry in the rulebook. So, I'm guessing that the next DE codex (whenever that will be printed) will do something similar.

What I mentioned before about bikes being able to use 2 weapons is that the rule against that (as in needing one hand to control the bike) has been cleverly omitted from the rulebook. Read the bike section. I did several times, and never saw that a marine biker cannot use a power weapon and bolt pistol.

Sadly, this is not the case (yet) with reavers, as I see it. Does anyone know how it is stated in the Eldar book?
 
#40 · (Edited)
Ok, well I looked at the space marine codex, which did not mention anything about usable weapons, it just referred me to the entry in the rulebook. So, I'm guessing that the next DE codex (whenever that will be printed) will do something similar.

What I mentioned before about bikes being able to use 2 weapons is that the rule against that (as in needing one hand to control the bike) has been cleverly omitted from the rulebook. Read the bike section. I did several times, and never saw that a marine biker cannot use a power weapon and bolt pistol.

Sadly, this is not the case (yet) with reavers, as I see it. Does anyone know how it is stated in the Eldar book?
sadly, yes, the 2handed weapon has cleverly been omitted from the rulebook, expect to see it fixt if/ when someone up the ladder ever decides to put out an FAQ on rulebook wordings (or anything else for that matter haha), which, as always, is damn near never.

someone with Craftworld Eldar codex may have wordings to support the situation... anyone wanna help on that?

sorry to be a stickler- but as wacky cleared earlier, 2 hand weapons, no worries. just not both at once, u need tormentor helm.

2 handed weapons, no. but im sure you misworded by mistake :D

*pokes The_Outsider with a pointy stick*
"You Forgot?!!"
 
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