Welcome to Librarium Online!
This is not my army list, this is my friends and is as close as I can come to remembering it. This is truly sick I've seen him whipe opponents off the board in 1-3 turns, and seen him beaten once in about 40 games.
2xhammerhead w/rail guns and smart missiles(4 shots not needing LOS) decoy launchers and the thing that lets the tank move as a fast vehicle and shoot.
1xhammerhead, same but with fusion blaster
Troops 4x devil fish with burst cannon, decoy launchers, thing that lets you have BS4, and smart missiles, carrying 6xfire warriors
3 units of one piranah each with decoy launchers, melta guns, gun drones
elites 2 units of 2 crisis suits plasma rifles and missiles, ability to move shoot move and hit and run
Idk, 3x crisis suits, 6x sheild drones (yes 12 wounds), move shoot move ability, plasma and missiles, invol save, and hit and run.
Idk why EVERYONE doesn't use this type of list. I guess this is mech tau but it's just about unbeatable. It has an answer for all situations and just won't LOSE. With only 6x fire warriors per fish, some die when their tank's destroyed, you kill the rest in CC and the TAU shoot at you during their turn every turn. You have to win a shooting battle, and noone's as good at it as tau. So...if you all have hints on beating this, or just want an unkillable army here you go. Personaly I think this is broken as I've not seen anyone compete with it yet.
I think you might want to take a gander through the Tau Empire Codex yourself. It seems to me that you friend might be misunderstanding the way the codex is written. This is understandable given the way GW writes their rules, but some of the things you have described would make the list even better, given the tau abilities to start.
Well, I run a similar list (by the rules), and have always found 2 things to be very difficult to beat. The first is fast attack choices (SM Bikes, Eldar Jetbikes, etc.) These can get the crisis into CC and, since they can't jump out, they die and radically cut down the tau's shooting ability.
The second is indirect fire (ordn and barrage). Jump shoot jump is useless with ordnance dropping on your head.
Reread the rules on jet packs in the rule book, and just be careful with what your opponent says he can do (make him prove the things that seem too good to be true, because they probably are).
By the way, what points level are you playing? I get 2000 pts, and it would be a bit tight to fit this all in (it can be done, though).
Hope this helps you have a bit more fun playing him.
"Listen up you primitive screwheads ... see this ... this is my BOOM-stick!" - Ash
"I told you, it's not Pink! It's Light Red!" Donut on his new power-armor.
It sounds slightly ficticious: it would be fun to play but I can definitely see it's vulnerabilities & the $$$ involved? Interesting concept
1. Lots of fast moving objects = space issues
You will eventually jeopardize a unit because of this. Every great army needs some ground; a 'pick' if you will.
2. Heavy point concentration = Easy targets
I agree the shields and the tanks make for a seriously demented army extremely hard to kill. There isn't much to kill though. A couple well placed shots on your tougher units with high S can knock 500-800 pts off the board in one round.
3. Lack of versatility = tactical lock down
The last thing you need is to face an army that is anti-heavy. You would be surprised at how well some Space Marine and Necron armies are at ripping tanks apart.
4. Unit numbers = less shots/ turn.
Although you have a good amount of shots coming onto the board: you will be running into problems right off the bat in that at this point range you will be seriously and when I mean seriously I mean SERIOUSLY out numbered.
Also it doesn't even need high strength to take down the HQ, massed small arms fire and CC will do the number on it no problem.
The list has a lack of ML support and is quite poor at anti infantry, the Fusion equipped HH is only legal if your playing friendlies.
Some of the abilities like the hit and run sound a bit dubious as well, I hope your referring to the jump shoot jump move.
Don't get me wrong its not a bad list but its far from perfect and is by no means any where near unbeatable and there are reasons more people don't take it, mainly bad unit choices like the FW and HQ.
The limited units matter little because of the survivability of said units. 6 fire warriors are meant to die, that way the tau player can shoot durring his turn because you can't tie them up in CC. The piranah are used to limit shots coming from certain anti tank units, ie preds, by making them move to get away from 3 seperate piranah, you take their shots form 3 to 1 and still catch them as they only move 6". You were correct on the 3rd hammerhead setup, not forgeworld. I didn't know about the single suit being able to take the hit and run, bit of help, but fact is even if I kill all units with wounds there are just to many tanks. Yes I know the hammerheads can only move 12" but for me that is almost uncatchable as the player can easily take out my transports and doesn't need LOS to my units to fire from 24" away. Honestly I would love to see this list playtested more with it's redundency and the railguns versatility and strength I think a good player stands a chance of winning over 95% of his games against any list. Eldar tanks are not as survivable and railguns eat them alive. Ordinance doesn't work well, it only glances tanks and with only 5-7 suits on the table my one defiler even on a good hit can't do much, the suits are insult to injury not really needed. Devil fish and hammerheads are the brunt of the force.
Personaly with my army I can't win this battle. I run PURE deathguard, with 2 tri las preds and a defiler, my armor is easy to catch on side or only at 12 and pops fast. I can't hide from skimmers they simply elevate and shoot. I have no fast attack as it's not allowed in my list and my only transports are rhinos which can be glanced by anything. With 12" movement the tau skimmers are able to move around landing behind terrain out of LOS and potshot me with 4 shots a turn per tank. Nasty list vs necrons they were phased out on turn 3, dark eldar was off the board on turn 1, nids lasted 3 turns, khorn 2 turns, eldar 4 turns, myself 5-6 turns, and IG turn 3 or 4 was non existant. Right now I firmly believe tau are the strongest army in the game.
Ok. First off, it's not that hard to hide from skimmers. Correct me if I'm wrong, models are never taller than the terrain upon which they are on, and the largest terrain gets is size three. If you surround your Defiler with rhinos, the only way that the Tau player could target it is to hover directly OVER the rhinos. That's it. They can't just 'elevate' themselves up to shoot at the Defiler, and even if they get up on some tower, they still count as size three.
To protect against Pirahnas, space out your troops around your vehicles so that there is no way to approach them without exposing their side/rear armor. They should be easy pickings for laser-predators anyway, with any luck at all. Put some anti-tank weapons in your squads. Make it suicide to get within eighteen inches of your tanks.
You're going to be facing a lot of AP firepower from this list, so you'll have to stay in cover. The firewarriors won't affect you unless they all attack the same target. The warfish are bad tanks, but they aren't the most lethal of tanks. As tempting as it might be, don't rush out of cover to assault the firewarriors. That's the trap..
Hammerheads are bad tanks, but they've got one shot. That's it, one hit/miss shot. Most of the time they'll hit. That's not all the time. When they hit, they won't always do something. You're using a defiler, so I'm going to assume you're playing Chaos. Are you using mutated hulls if you can? Those help, lots.
I don't see how this guy's list dealt with Tyranids. Fast nids would've been on those suits on turn two max. Nidzalla would've had enough firepower to take down the tanks, though the suits would've given them poblems... Say Riki, if you were to make a Nidz list to fight this one, what would it look like?
Don't panic because of all the things moving around. That just works into his favor. If the pirahnas are coming, don't worry about it. Eliminate the places that they can boost too to hide. Take them out. It's not that hard.
The suits are nasty, but keep them at range and what are they doing? Seven Ap shots, 14 non-Ap shots. Think of it this way. Iron Hands Chaos Marines and Imperial Guard are dealing that out in Lascannons and autocannons. Only more. Any fast moving unit will cream them in CC. I've already explained how to protect your defiler.
Definitely spread out your anti-tank amongst your squads.
It's not impossible to out-shoot Tau. Imperial Guard and Iron Hands (?) have us beat in most respects. Don't underestimate bolters. Six firewarriors will not stand up under shooting of any kind.
All of those potshots from the SMS are intimidating, but that's all they are. Potshots. Don't worry about them too much. I'm going to say that it'll take you massed troops. And I mean MASSED. Go Orky on them. Give each squad a melta gun if you can. Make it impossible to get away. He runs the same list every time. Tailor yourself to it. Show him the wrath of Chaos. Change things up. Surprise him.
And you know what, I would love to see what this guy would do against a Grot swarm. I have only one word for it: SLAUGHTER. That list simply does not have the output to take down 180+ modles, plus everything following behind it. Or an IG conscript list. Or a Space Marine Drop Pod list for that matter. Or a Chaos infiltration list. Heck, Kroot Mercenaries could be this list's nightmare. Over one hundred models, within assault range, each squad with eviscerators, and likely to get first turn? Yes thanks. Lictor's would be horrible for it as well. Heck, a Callexus assassin would have an absolute field day with that HQ.
"My capacity for hard work is immense. It's my willingness to do said work that's lacking..."
Fluffmaster Clan Member
Shas'El A'ava Mont'Ein D'ran O'Kroot - Tau Fluff HERE
Nidz lists get hosed by skimmer heavy armies since the railgun subs can kill off most things with rending(genestealers duh) and then the skimmers can just form walls to keep those gaunts from getting near your lines.
But no, a mech tau list is not unbeatable by any means. Static shooty and semi mobile shooty marine lists (mainle dark angels) can be a real pain in the backside especially if they load up on autocannons, assault cannons, and heavy bolters.
Interesting. I can't vary my list to much being deathguard I have very limited options. I find it intrigueing that you say a skimmer isn't any higher than terrain it hovers over...in my area it's always been played that elevated tanks see all and can be seen by all. I have some speed, mostly killing the skimmers is hard, the fire warriors never get out and piranah I can just eat with plasma. I take 2x plasma guns in six different squads for a total of 12 plasmas in my list. Some of the rules you bring up make a HUGE difference in the game. Now around here judges and tourney runners say that a rhino can't hide a defiler as you can still draw LOS to the tank as it's so much taller and wider. Also skimmer hovering over a piece of lvl 1 terrain are considered elevated and can see all. I would love some pages of referance to where you're getting some of these rules for if they are there, I could be losing games I don't need to.
This may sound harsh but its amazing how smoothly the games run and the atmosphere is better because of less arguments (they are cleared up quickly because codexes etx are to hand).
Or you need to find a new place to play,as for the page references,well instead of expecting everyone to go and find them for you and then reel of lots of page number, I would politely suggest you do what we all did go and read the codex/rule book, if your opponent does not have a codex well how is he assembling his list?, if he does have one he must show you were the rule is written to support his statements (hit and run etc) if he does not do not play him.