Welcome to Librarium Online!
Hi all, nice to be a part of these forums
I just picked up a ton of tyranid models last night and stayed up allllll night putting them together :ninja:. When i got to creating army lists, i wanted to make a balanced, shock army. Basically i wanted all my troops to charge into combat while giving off a constant hail of fire. A rough overview of the list was like 3 leaping ST/RC warriors, 16 hormagaunts, 16 spinegaunts, 15 spinegaunts, a beefed up winged tyrant, a VC/BS carnifex and this carnifex:
thats 158 points in all...I used this list in a 1000 pt game against my friend's pure grey knights army and i have to say, i didnt do to bad considering he killed my Hive tyrant AND my above carnifex in 1 hit from that force sword!!!(
The carnifex shot off all his weapons killing a terminator, then charged his grand master and killed off his entire retinue of terminaters in 2 rounds of close combat while taking only one wound, then got killed with the force sword.
im just wondering if that carnifex creation would stand up to other armies such as necrons, chaos and tau.
Last edited by Mr.Lani Milbus; March 20th, 2007 at 16:55.
Jack of all trades and master of none.
To be truly efficient, I feel that it pays off to specialise to a certain role.
Your current carnifex isn't good at shooting and only average at CC.
In theory, it's great to have a ubiqutous squad, but nids don't really have that option. Your carni would have done better either obliterating the enemy ranks with a high number of shots and softening them up for your genestealers to get them.
Or you could give him the standard gunfex armaments (barbie strangler, venom cannon) and enjoy the fun of instant killing S8 pie plates.
CC carnifexes are dodgy at best. Especially against grey knights who'll be wounding you on 4s because of their nemesis weapons.
Just my thoughts of course, but when i play with or against nids, the carnifexes always do well in ranged combat and die in CC.
In fact, when playing against them with Chaos, CC is very good for me.
If you want to make that Carnifex more powerful you could upgrade one or more of it's weapons. You could give it a barbed strangler instead of the devourers. Or you could replace the scything talons with crushing claws.
The barbed strangler won't dish out the constant rain of hits of the devourers but it is more powerful and longer ranged as well as being able to pin etc. The crushing claws are more controversial. Many people don't like them because they are random in how good they will be. This can be an assaet though as opponents tend to underestimate them or seem to forget that the thing carrying them is a Carnifex. People also can find the random nature offputting.
Of course either or both of these weapons will increase the Carnifex's points value. You could try one of them and see how it goes. From what you said about this Carnifex munching through Terminators I think it sounds like it works well already.
If you want to use it against Tau, Chaos and Necrons I suggest going to extremes to deal with that lot. Those armies are typically armies that go to extremes. Necrons are probably the easiest to deal with.
I've had some fun with this elite level fex: 2 x STs, Adrenal +WS, Spinebanks. It's cheap enough to sacrifice as cover for genestealers, but the spinebanks give it a couple of short range twin-linked S6 shots, plus all the goodness of frag grenades.
Well as already stated its usually better to just specialize in one thing instead of using mix in nids. IMO it would be better to use a dakka fex (ES, 2 TL dev) and then a cheap CC fex (AG(WS), 2 ST, Toxic Miasma, Flesh hooks). The cheap CC one is probally the only way I would ever run a CC fex because it can actually hit SM on 3+ which is needed and it will have a nice 4 attacks other wise I will almost always use dakka fexs in elites anyways.
Is it me or does any other necron player get annoyed when they see people saying "Necrons eat souls". How is that even possible as souls are part of the warp and necrons want nothing to do with it? Eh probaly me just me being picky.
Tyranid Hivemind Member
I have to agree with Lictor, I like the Dakka much more than the CC.
My main reason is just timing. Specifically, the worst case scenario: If I'm fighting an army that has big armor and keeps the armor back (where it will be safest and do the most damage).
If I put my fex on the line, I still will have about 30" to cover, or specifically 24" and then 6" for assualt. That means 4 turns of slogging. Even if it's less, I'm losing at least 2 turns of possible shooting. With atleast a dakka fex, I can typically start shooting within the 1st or 2nd turn. I think just some extra shooty makes up for losing some CC ability.
But that's my 2 rippers worth. ;-)
The truest form of tactical prowess is to make your enemy smile happily as they walk into your trap.
Hug a genestealer today!
CC Carnifexi would be fantastic if they had a biomorph that let them charge 12" (Leaping) or a biomorph that let them move 12" (Wings). Unfortunately, they don't. Since they don't, they're too slow to work as a mobile CC unit (They can't catch anything that would be worth eating!). Unless you need to hunker down on an objective and stay there, leave the CC's Carni at home because he's the definition of "inefficient".
That said, Dakkas and Gunfexi are probably the most efficient 'Fex builds. That's why they're used so much. Deathspitter Fexi are okay, but Deathspitters tend to work better on Warriors because their strength cap and Assault 1 rating make's Carni's beautiful Strength score almost a moot point (I know Devourers have a low Strength cap too, but the fact is that having them on a Carni versus a Warrior means a ton more shots due to the fact Carni is a TMC, plus they're all TL'd to boot). Don't even consider any other weapons.
An specialised carnifex would perform better then the one you have now. And more often than not, Ranged performs mostly better then Close combat. Yes, you can have yourself a greater deamon like carnifex, but it is still like 250 points, and it takes for him a very, very long walk to reach combat. I used to have close combat carnifexes, but most of the time, they didn't even make close combat, because there were no targets left (because of my genestealers and flying HT) or the targets just moved out of the way, leading them into a trap (well, trying to do that). Only once a close combat carnifex made it, and it slaughterd the unit it charged and finishing it with the 3 gaunts that were left and won the I-check
But remeber that carnifexes have a very low I, and because of them, they are often not able to charge a unit, then break it AND destroy it in one charge. When to do charge, they often break it, but this only leaves some runners, and problably above 50% starting strength.
As for the shooting carnies, they are often less expensive, and really boost your armies capabilities. In my opinion, these are your road to ultimate beatdown!
Tyranids Win / Draw /Lost 
Daemon Hunters Win / Draw / Lost 
What I do like about this design is that it keeps point wasting to a minimum and that is a large advantage. In lieu of that I would suggest the following changes to increase your carnis ability while saving points.
Remove Mace Tail
Ask yourself did you gain any extra attacks in close combat due to this? its very rare that you will ever be surrounded and if you are you go last and by then theres probably a powerfist that has turned you into carni goo....
GOing at the same time as powerfists is bad, its not just bad its criminal. Give him the Initiative increase and remember pretty much all your attacks allows no saves except invulnerable and cause instant death. i.e. all your attacks are force weapons. kill the damn librarian before he gets a chance to whack you. he is an IC and so must be in base contact to attack you and that also means he can be targeted directly.
While I do applaud you for the use of spine banks as a second gun as it adds to the assault effect of the fex i do believe that a dakka fex which is cheaper (can be elite) would be scarier for your opponent.
Nice fex though
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Spine banks is great because it also counts as frags.
Assaulting people in cover suddenly makes the carnifex insanely good. Powerfists still go last, but the carnifex also goes first. S10 at I10 is just criminal.
While it IS a shame that carnifexes don't have any speed modifiers.. it's also probably a good thing, as I feel that would defintiely make them breakable. I mean... having hormagaunts assault on turn 1 or 2 is one thing.. but a carnifex?
The meat has feelings too apparently.