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I'm new to Warhammer 40k and am just starting the game up with two of my friends. I, after looking through the different races, decided to side with the necrons (one friend is space marines the other is chaos marines). We're looking at playing roughly 1000 point games and I was looking through different armies to get a rough idea on how to structure my own army. However, I see a lack of wraiths being used in any battle and was wondering why is this so. They seem like a fairly solid unit with unique enough abilities to help the necron force in general, but perhaps I am wrong. Can you please give me any feedback as to why they are not used and also what should I lean towards in fighting against chaos and space marines?
from what i see, wraiths are ususally used in the "wraith wing" of 6-9 wraiths and a destroyer lord. this costs quite a few pts, and otherwise, wraiths take up a FA slot that could be filled with destroyers.
2000pts Orks 4-2-1
Cuison! Welcome to LO! Pull up a chair, set your socks on fire, throw a donkey out the window and make yourself at home.
Wraiths look pretty good on paper - many high S attacks at high I. Fast and resilient with their funky move.
They have some problems though:
1. squad size. For a CC unit, it really really isn't too hot.
2. Their attacks.. are standard attacks - brilliant against guard or GEQ... but suddenly not so hot against power armour.
So.. their low squad number coupled with assaulting power armour means that.. even though the marines are going to go second.. they'll still probably get a decent amount of attacks out to potentially cripple you .
Additionally, Wraiths aren't exactly cheap and it's not that hard to mess up three power armour saves - INVULNERABLE or otherwise.
If you drop 3, then you don't even get any WBB (unless there's a resorb nearby or tomb spyder with etc etc etc etc.).
For these reasons, I personally don't rate wraiths against marines - even as counter assault units.. although they will smash devestators/havocs and rear armour of vehicles rather nicely.
against marines.. i'm afraid i'm going to have to pass the baton on to someone else to help you.. as I tend to play as Chaos crushing Necrons.
I imagine it has a lot to do with tight movement, and efficient use of monolith teleport, veil of darkness and resorbs. Avoid close combat - especially against marines of either persuasion.
Well most people don't use them unless they theme or "Wraith wing" their army. Wraiths while having a great state line are two small in squad size to matter much when you can have 5 destoryers or 10 sacrabs in that slot instead.
Sure they have a lot of high strenght attacks for a small squad that almost always go first or at the same time, but they won't do enough. Sure you may get 6 hits and onther 4 wounds, but that is only 1 space marine. Sure against t3 it's better 4 dead, but not great either way.
So most people take destoryers because they will live longer half the time and can kill more with higher squad sizes.
Prey they don't take you alive
anyway, welcome to the forum cuision! i have been playing necrons for a couple of years and marines and chaos space marines are some of the most difficult races to take on, at 1000pts you will probably not have any significant armor penetrating weapon, so they will always get their saves etc.
what you need to do is to get an evenly built army. preferably alot of shooting and some CC units like scarabs or flayed ones to help stop the enemy's advance.
one thing that is extremely vital when facing enemies that are effective in CC is to use the veil of darkness or the monolith's teleport ability to keep your units away from CC as much as possible.
here are 3 1000pts lists that i would consider using against marines or chaos space marines:List1 = balancedNecron lord
Veil of darkness
10x Necron warriors
12x Necron warriors
10x Scarabslist 2 = close combatNecron lord
Gaze of flame
10x flayed ones
10x Necron warriors
10x Necron warriors
1x Tomb spyder
10x Scarabslist 3 = shootyNecron lord
Veil of darkness
10x Necron warriors
11x Necron warriors
"I have seen you humans, trying to forge an Empire in the name of a corpse"
I have yet to field my 3 wraiths against any MEQ army and am very afraid to for all of the aforementioned reasons.
However, I have fielded them against and IG army and I LOVE the results. Every time I have done it I manage to get all 3 into CC really quickly. Then I tend to knock out 4 or more models in the charge. The part that makes them really useful is that IG tend to fail their leadership tests and when they are rolling against an initiative of 6 they always get cut down allowing me to consolidate into another unit. Rinse, lather, and repeat.
Wraiths are shock troops. Use them like shock troops and you won't be disappointed.
Wraiths excel in the assault and running people down. You strike in with a massive amount of high strength attacks and hope you did so much damage that the return blows are minimal.
Pick ranged marine units or those new combat squads (love those things, perfect wraith bait when killing 3 or so per assault). The powerfist will kill you and if you can't get enough models down right away then the normal return blows can devastate the unit.
I personally like plopping a destroyer lord with them for backup. Give him wargear to help the wraiths out and his armor ignoring weapons to add needed effectiveness against marines. (changes 2-3 dead per assault to 3-4 (or more), but the marines still strike at the same time as the lord). Otherwise wraiths eat weaker squads for breakfast. Eldar have a hard time wounding and guard are at a loss in all areas.
The trick is to attack so that those that are left give minimal resistance. Just touching a marine so that three of them can attack (not the Pfist) and you get 12 wraith attacks is a great way to win a round of combat without loosing any, or a minimal amount, or wraiths. Because marines simply regroup, you don't want to sweep them. But with guard or tau, you want to sweep them so that you can consolidate into cover or another squad while dealing maximum damage (little resistance to your ninjas).
"When a necron gets hit with a weapon more than double its toughness it is hit so hard that it goes into "negative damage" and does less damage than it actually would if it hit him with less force!" Quote from azimaith on Warseer, contemplating how much GW will Nerf the WBB rules.
There are some ways of using Wraith squads effectively, all dependig on your personal taste and preferred playing style.
Sleepy did point out some vital issues concerning their use. Positioning is very important when you assault, but your freedom of movement is hampered by the rules (Moving into contact mandatory etc.) So read carefully and plan your assaults ahead.
That said, I'd like to add a few things.
First of all, when you plan to use Wraiths offensively, you got to support them. A scarab swarm will do wonders to increase the staying and hitting power of your precious Wraiths.
1. They work to minimize return blows at your Wraiths, because models must strike against enemy models in direkt contact. Bring the swarms in contact with as many enemies as you can manage, then move the Wraith in contact with only one model. If the enemy squad is spread out even a little bit, at most 2 Models can strike your wraiths.
2. They bring their own attacks into the melee, which is nothiing to scoff at (4 per base when assaulting)
3. They bring more wounds, which makes it more likely for you to outnumber your opponent after the battle.
4. they are fearless, so even if you lose combat by a stroke of bad luck, noone will be able to pursue your wraiths if they flee (I've seen it happen, eveen with their high morale)
Teaming Wraith and scarab squads works best in balanced armies. 2 FA slots used, the 3rd is taken by destroyers. Consider sending a Destroyer Lord along for extra hitting power. (if you want to be mean, equip him with a lightning field and attach him to the scarabs)
Such a combo will hand any MEQs their power armoured butts. I have used this tactic against Blood Angel DC, against Wulfen and Khorne Berserkers with satisfying results (nothing is more satisfying than seeing the look on your opponents face when his price CC Unit is ripped to shreds by Necrons, considering our poor reputation when it comes to CC )
The other offensive option is the aforementioned Wraith Wing. Taken to the extreme, 9 Wraiths and a Destroyer Lord with ResOrb and Phase Shifter will do much damage. 2 Units of wraiths with one big scarab swarm will work well, too. I've yet to decide which configuration is more menacing. Both will hit hard and fast.
The second big combat role for Wraiths is conter-assault. Have them lurk behind your lines, staying out of LOS from the enemies heavier weapons. Use them to intercept incoming CC units (again, teming with scarabs is mandatory for full effectiveness ) or to assault leftover enemies when you teleported a squad out of CC (after you shot the crap out of the annoying unit, of course)
Of course, your Wraiths will do squat if you don't maneuver them rightr. A Unit of Three is shot up very, very easily. Expose them to any amount of fire and they will fall apart. This is important against all armies, evenm against Tyranids and Orks. They have only T 4, which means that wounds pile up very quickly. You're bound tro fail some of those 3+ saves. So keep them in cover or provide your opponent with more threatening targets until you are ready to strike..
Hope that helped. I like using Wraiths and I include at least one unit in almost every List -except when I want to go the all shooty route. i.e. two ore more units of Destroyers.
As an afterthought, I would like to encourage you 8and every other Necron player) to try out an all CC Necron Army. Believe me, it's lot of fun and way more intersting for both players than the standard Destroyers-Immortals-Monolith "Theme" encountered so often.
Not in my game you won't!!
Nid players often mix raveners and hormagaunts together for a really devastating effect.
Maybe the same thing can be done here.
...right.. on the the OP's second question..
what's the best way to deal with Chaos Space marines or loyalist ones?
A shed load of destroyer shots?