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  1. #1
    Member Furbifex's Avatar
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    Is a fex even worth it?

    I never feel like my fex ever earns its points back. CC fexes suck so i never use them. I use a fex with venom cannon, barbed strangler, and enhanced senses. I think it is with the 4 up to hit. I always miss. It SUCKS!!! Its not even a matter of how fast the fex dies. I just either get unlucky or my opponent gets a save, or the shot isnt strong enough. I always find stealers and winged tyrant, etc more effective anti tank, etc. To sum it up, my fex jus never seems to get the job done. Any advice or thoughts?

    --When I die, I would like to go peacefully, in my sleep, like my grandfather did. Not screaming and yelling like the passenger in his car.
    -Jack Handey

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  3. #2
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    Generally, Tyrants do a better job than carnifexes. Except you can only ever have two tyrants and only one winged tyrant. You can have, up to, six carnifexes across the table.

    Genestealers are great, but a carnifex will laugh at some of the stuff that will chew up genestealers.

    Are you using your carnifex effectively? The Venom Cannon/Barbed Strangler sniperfex should be shooting at vehicles, which, fortunately, do not get saving throws. Despite only the BS being able to penetrate (which is hardly does thanks to low strength), such a barrage usually leaves a vehicle unable to shoot. Very strong, very tough, and gets a 15 point upgrade that will increase its survivablity by 25%.

    Two twin-linked devourer carnifex (devilfexes) are your anti-troop monsters. 8 re-roll to hit and re-roll to wound shots which are S6, which usually force 6-8 saves on marines (resulting in two or three dead models). It's also quite cheap.

    Close combat carnifexes are not very efficient. They're slow, vulnerable to a large amount of shooting, and tend to get the crap kicked out of them in combat against high strength power weapons (powerfist, anyone?) because they lack an invulnerable save. Now, with that said, carnifex have high strength themselves and their attacks are deadly to vehicles and usually instant death most multi-wound models. Sadly, they have EXTREMELY low initiative and rather poor WS stat for their weight.

    A decent choice for a carnifex in place of the rather expensive uber close combat beat (which is about 290 points) is the ninjafex. A carnifex with two scything talons, miasma, AG-WS, and flesh hooks comes in at 114 points--the max that an elite carnifex can be. It's REALLY cheap, still has the prime characterstics of a carnifex (high toughness, which helps more than anything else except reinforced chitin), many wounds, decent amount of attacks. With miasma and the WS upgrade, you're hitting marines on 3s and forcing WS5 to hit you on 4s. Flesh hooks are also highly useful as most opponents you'll want to throw a CC carni at like to hide in cover. What's worse than a carnifex charging at you? A carnifex charging at you and going at I10 (or at the same time as you--and before your powerfists!) Not to mention that it still counts as 10 models, so if you do win combat, you'll more than likely, be outnumbering your opponent.

    On a parting note, playing a tyranid army on the concept of "earning points back" is slightly flawed. We have units that, if they make it into combat, WILL win the game (genestealers, for example). We know it, our opponents know it. So they concentrate on those units. Now, what happens when their tanks are destroyed or rendered useless by sniperfex fire? What happens when their so-called assault specialists are ripped apart by devourer fire? And, most importantly, how are they going to shoot the genestealers through the size 3 ninjafex? WHat's one of the worse things that can happen to a genestealer squad--assaulting into cover. A carnifex can charge in and, more than likely, survive at least one turn which then takes the combat out of cover and allows your genies to charge in unobstructed.
    "Tell me what you cherish most. Give me the pleasure of taking it away." Sephiroth, Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children

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    Member Furbifex's Avatar
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    i know...i use my fex just how u said, but it never seems to get the job done...is it just my bad luck or something? because i seem to roll rather well in nearly every other aspect of the game.
    --When I die, I would like to go peacefully, in my sleep, like my grandfather did. Not screaming and yelling like the passenger in his car.
    -Jack Handey

    D.M.I.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Abraham Lincoln's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Furbifex View Post
    i know...i use my fex just how u said, but it never seems to get the job done...is it just my bad luck or something? because i seem to roll rather well in nearly every other aspect of the game.
    I agree that the fex is not a very reliable unit. Especially when compared to units like Genestealers. But, there is one thing the Fex does that nothing in the Nid army can do as well: shoot vehicles.

    I only run Fexes w/ Strangler/V-Can/Senses/Carapace, and only two of them at the most. They generally don't make their points back. But I think of them like buying insurance, just in case I face a skimmer-heavy list. Because in all honesty, I think that without a sniperfex, if you face a single land speeder, you are going to lose simply because nothing else in the army can catch up with it, let alone hit it. (that's a little extreme - but against some Eldar skimmers there would be trouble)

    Here are my three roles for my Fex:

    1) Distract (and hopefully destroy) vehicles, especially skimmers. I try to figure out which vehicle's firepower-to-armour-value is the worst (meaning, they put out more damage than they can take), and I disable it. This is usually land speeders, then ass-cannon dreads, then predators... you get the idea. SKIMMERS are this fex's 'specialty' - and by that I mean he's better at killing them than anything else in our army.

    2) Mangle crap-Sv armies, like IG or orks. Remeber, it's shooting an ordnance template for Pete's sake.

    3) If there aren't any skimmers, light vehicles, or low-Sv units, then I just launch my carnifex across the table, screeching and flapping his limbs, trying to attract fire. I usually do this anyways, because it's practically impossible to kill carnifexes anyways, and the more fire they absorb the better off the swarm is. Just look out for armies with loads of long-range AP2 weapons, like lascannons or railguns.
    Armies:
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  6. #5
    Charitably Tables People MVBrandt's Avatar
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    Carnifex = more value than just "earning its points back."

    Think first about what you MEAN by earn its points back.

    Let's say a Carnifex soaks up fire that - if shot at other units - would take out more than 200 points worth of your forces. In that scenario, you've earned your points back. It's not all about the raw amount of killing done, but they can get that accomplished also.

    I use a "Templatenid" army, backed up by a lot of gun-less gaunts and a few wisely used raveners, plus some zoanthropes for anti-marine/tank duties later in a game.

    I utilize 2 tyrants w/ barbed strangler, enhanced senses, venom cannon. I utilize 2 fexes with barbed strangler, enhanced senses, venom cannon. I utilize 3 squads of 3 warriors with enhanced senses, toxin sacs, 2x deathspitters and 1 barbed strangler per squad.

    Every turn that I fire, I can drop 2 S8 pie plates on an infantry unit and 5 S4 pie plates. I don't care if they are terminators and get a 2+ save against it, every "hit" is going to force multiple saving throws, and remember with pinning weapons that you have to take a test for EVERY shot that kills something. So, if you land only half of those pie plates, and kill 2 units - one with each shot - they have to take TWO pin tests, and then probably a break test post-shooting if they pass both pintests. Add in 3 zoanthropes with psychic scream to -3 leadership on every model w/in 18" of the trio, and you'd be amazed at how fast a bunch of barbed stranglers can literally neuter an entire infantry force in a turn.

    That little fun scenario aside, the strangler/VC fex doesn't always have to hit the broad side of a barn to be useful. A pie plate that can pin even and kill all kinds of stuff, and that INSTANT KILLS T4 and below, and a pair of venom cannon shots with strength 10 (even if they can't pen closed tops) inspire a lot of respect in the average opponent, who is either going to take retarded steps to avoid them, or is going to waste retarded amounts of firepower on them. PUT YOUR FEX ON THE ROOF OF A BUILDING. Nothing is as effective at soaking fire and getting good fields of fire than a fex with a 4+ cover save.

    Keep the fex - they are totally worth it. If it doesn't hit much, at least it will distract the hell out of an opponent.

    Also, there are the otehr uses mentioned, a la ninjafexes as genestealer screens, etc.

    They're a combination unit. In my average game, one of two things happen. 1) Opponent ignores the gaunts and usually well-hidden raveners and pumps round after round into fexes, tyrants and warriors, which won't really hurt my firepower output due to the durability of those units ... whereupon the 60 4 point gaunts tie him up in melee, setting his army up for a charge from squads of 2, 2 and 1 raveners respectively (which, when they all plow into the same unit on one turn, are a million times more effective than the same # of points in genestealers ... 25 rending attacks /drool).

    2) Opponent focuses fire on the incoming gaunts, keeping his units from being tied up and set up for the ravener kill shot. This keeps him from suffering insta-death via the 5 ravener group chewing through one tied up unit at a time, but he then takes up to 7 pie plates, 6 deathspitter blasts, and 3 zoanthrope shots every turn.


    Trust the fex ... they'll either ding the living poo out of an opponent, or freak the living poo out of him. Either way, there's lots of morale impacting nastiness on the opponent.

  7. #6
    Member Furbifex's Avatar
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    I definitely see what you guys are saying. I guess I just got really unlucky the past few matches I used them. Those matches, the enemy shot at everything but my fexes and the fexes missed everything. I think I'lll definitely stick with the fexes though.

    Thanks!
    --When I die, I would like to go peacefully, in my sleep, like my grandfather did. Not screaming and yelling like the passenger in his car.
    -Jack Handey

    D.M.I.

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    If you don't mind not being able to get penetrating hits, bear in mind that as an alternative to VC/BC carnifex you can take one with two Venom Cannons that count as twin-linked. The probability of missing with all 3 of your shots if you have VC/BS is 1/8. The probability of missing with both your shots if you have 2 VCs is half that, at 1/16. I mention this just because you say you are fed up missing the whole time! The performance of double VCs versus vehicles is quite good, but it does mean you lose anti-troops effectiveness and that your carnifex is 15 more points.
    Tyranids / Skaven / Pan Oceania

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    Member Furbifex's Avatar
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    I think I'll stick with the VC/BS fex.
    --When I die, I would like to go peacefully, in my sleep, like my grandfather did. Not screaming and yelling like the passenger in his car.
    -Jack Handey

    D.M.I.

  10. #9
    Blood Boy Leech's Avatar
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    Maybe you could try to use cheaper Carnifex's. Using highly expensive but powerful models always come with the problem of getting your points back. Carnifex's with a pair of twinlinked devourers and enhanced senses are good. You could also try a cheap assault Fex. Something with two pairs of scything talons and a scythe tail or tusked could be handy.

    Basically use fairly cheap and expendable Carnifex's so there isn't much pressure to get a game-winning performance out of them. The Dakka-fex with the devourers can be handy for chewing up anything light weight that comes it's way. A cheap Carnifex with scything talons can afford not to be amazing and just slowly wander towards the enemy behind everybody else. With it's STR and armour penetration if it reaches a tank it will be worth taking.

    If neither of these models perform well it isn't the end of the game as they are rather cheap. Also it is easy to learn how to use the effectively if you aren't paying much points for them as you can experiment during a game. Then if you use a more expensive Carnifex you will be more confortable with it.

  11. #10
    Mau'Dib
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    Personally I run two kitted out (all defensive upgrades) sniper fexes and a single dakkafex. Personally I have never been disapointed with my fex's performance. You just have to remember that the Sniper fex is there for 2, potentially 3 reasons.

    1st, it's there to shake tanks. Notice I said shake, not destroy. The odds of fex shooting killing a tank is very very low. However, if you shake or stun 1 tank a turn (something a fex can do fairly easily) that's 1 tank that isn't shooting at you. Do that over 6 turns and you'll do some heavy damage. You also will eventually close on the shaken up tank to assault it.

    2nd It's a fire soak. Kitted out defensively there's very little that is going to really hurt your fex. He can soak tons of fire every turn, and because of the reputation of fexs he's going to take a lot of shooting as he marchs slowly down the field. Every squad that fires on the Fex is one that isn't shootin genestealers or (in my list) my flyrant.

    3rd (and this is only if you hit a list with no tanks) the Fex is there to drop pie plates on close packed infantry. If you somehow take down all the tanks your fex can then start unloading the str 8 pinning pie plates of Dhoom. You'll only hit 50% of the time, but with 2 fexes shooting you have a 75% chance of at least one of them hitting. With the number of units covered you'll likely get a fair number of kills.

    Long story short, in the list I run at least, the Carnifex isn't there to kill it's point cost in units, it's there to ensure that units like genestealers and my Flyrant can kill several times their points cost in close combat. I've found it works fairly well against everything but very skimmer heavy lists (and that's something any CC nids list has problems with.)
    ~2k of genestealery goodness
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    Dovie'andi se tovya sagain

    more witty remarks to come.

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