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This has recently come up because I have been experimenting with the 'pocket Pathfinder' team- 3 Stealth Suits, team leader w/markerlight HWTL, HWDC and 2x Markerlight drones. Expensive, but I like it.
However, I noticed something and I haven't been able to resolve it by reading the rules (which are ambiguous, at least to me.) Markerlight drones take on the squad type of their controller, in this case "Jump Infantry (Jetpack)". This means they get an assault move.
Does this mean they can use their markerlight (not moving in the move phase), then use their assault move afterwards? Similarly, can the team leader pull this trick off as well? Or am I missing a nicely worded 'no' somewhere? Page numbers are always nice .
Yes, Yes they can... Im not sure where it is in the book, but i think its answerd in the FAQ for Tau.
Going by the book, no.. Not unless they have an advanced stabilization system.
I'm reading the FAQ now and I can't find anything to correct that.. Unless there's another FAQ somewhere I haven't seen.
The markerlight is a heavy weapon.. Jet packs allow a unit fire rapid fire weapons normally if they've moved, but not heavy weapons. So either the unit moves as normal stealthsuits (JSJ) and can't fire the markerlight or it stays completely stationary, no movement at all during the turn, and can fire its markerlights.
In short, it seems like a terrible option to me which completely invalidates the role of stealthsuits. I guess if you just wanted to use them as a static markerlight with the benefits of the stealth it might work.. but then.. 150+ points for an average of one markerlight hit a turn? Yuck.. At that price I'd just get a couple of sniper teams, who would have just as many markerlights (with a higher chance to hit) stealth fields and a bunch of marine killing rail rifles.
Here is a link to a FAQ with rules for Stealth Suit Team Leaders and there Marker Lights...
"If you give a Stealth team leader a Markerlight you may fire it if you remain stationary in the Movement Phase. You can then move in the Assault Phase using the Tau Jet Pack without affecting the Markerlight."
That being said, same rules apply to markerlight drones (or so i would assume)
Yes, you can't move during the movement phase, but then can move during the assault phase, same as a stealth suit.
This isn't something they came up with specifically, btw, it's a derivative rule. I.e. you can't fire a heavy weapon if you have moved this turn, so you can't move during the movement phase if you want to fire in the shooting phase. But nothing keeps you from moving afterwards, during the assault phase. In turn, that doesn't affect the following turns shooting at all, cuz it's not the same turn.
Not to threadjack my own thread, but I am fully aware of the inefficiency, points wise, of using stealth teams as markerlight sources. Although this makes them considerably nicer, since they actually have limited mobility while still firing their ML's.
Even before that ruling, however, my experience with Pathfinders has been the following:
overrun by infiltrating Brood lord on turn 2
overrun by hormagaunts on turn 2
killed by deep striking assault team on turn 2
scared off board by drop pod librarian on turn 3
hit by whirlwind pie plate and broken, fled off board on turn 1
tank shocked by eldar skimmer tank, fled off board.
and so on and so forth.
Pathfinders are incredibly static elements for a 'fast attack' choice. I have come to loathe them, at least in my pure mechanized list. To properly use them, I want Kroot, static firewarriors, or both. Kroot are ok, but I dislike the models and have none painted or built, nor plan to do so. Static firewarriors make the list Hyrbid, rather than Mech. Right now, I get markerlights off the stealth team and a Skyray. More costly, but I like my mobility. And I am unwilling to give up said sky ray or a hammer head for 1-3 static sniper teams.
The sacrifices I make for my quest for the holy pure mechanized list .
all advanced stabalisation system does is give you slow and purposeful meaning you can move and still fire a heavy weapon. In this case you can still use your assault move no matter what, but you cany use the markerlight if you chose to move in the movement phas, simple.
They are nice little units stealths 'n markers, but well expensive. Its more efficient buying a pathfinder team. But I aint critising i love stealth suites.
Pathfinders can move, and they have a devilfish.. Okay, it disrupts their shooting, which is undoubtably annoying, but if your enemy is wasting time chasing your pathfinders around then he's probably wasting resources to do it. Markerlights are an efficiency booster, but your army isn't going to fall apart because the pathfinders had to embark and run away from something.How did that happen? Unless they were loaded out with flamers or something, I can't see an assault unit polishing off a whole squad with shooting.Originally Posted by enthar
Nice idea, but if you really want to overdo it give each member a drone control and 2 marker drones. Is it overkill, yes but 7 infiltrating markerlights would be sweet.
Well its actually 3x BS 3 markerlights for 165 points. I fully acknowledge that, from an efficiency standpoint, its sub optimal. But, having an extra 1.5 markerlight hits a round (above the 1.33 you get off the Skyray) helps launch all those seeker missiles, as well as knock down the occasional cover save or boost a BS skill. I usually use it to assist my Railheads, rather than boosting my Firewarriors. The FW's are mostly running around in a warfish anyway, and don't have the need for lots of markerlights.
And your right, my army doesn't usually fall apart just cause my Pathfinders get plastered fast. But, from my admittedly limited experience, the pathfinders never make their points back. And with a basic fish, the squad costs about the same as the stealth team.
And its true that the stealth teams are only a little more durable. But this mobility, combined with the stealth field, does make a difference. Especially the mobility. That extra movement means they last till turn 4 on average (3 games of experience), rather than turn 2 (8 games of experience). Which is 12 markerlight shots versus 8. For roughly the same point cost. And the burst cannons give them roughly the same fire power as well, albeit without pinning.
So in the end, the pathfinders usually end up being very cheap victory points for my opponents. With my FW's buttoned up in warfish, and everything else highly mobile, the pathfinders become a natural target for things like artillery, assault squads, and the like. The stealth team, however, tend to go on my opponents priority list below the other crisis suits, and as a result last longer and make a bigger difference.