Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
After seeing a few posts about how fire warriors are no supposed to be a brilliant troops choice (not my opinion by the way) and being saddled with 1 troop choice (Tau not Kroot) I was thinking about the validity of taking Drones instead.
Now to do this you could take 6 FW on foot and give them a Markerlight or something and a unit of Kroot 10 strong with 8 hounds.
This will only cost 85pts for the FW squad with ML and TL and 118pts for the Kroot, total 203pts less than a FW squad with Devilfish.
Now I don't use fast attack much so I usually have all 3 fast attack slots available, so 3 full squads of gun drones at 96pts each for a total of 288pts, this will give:
24 twin linked pulse carbine shots per turn with possible pinning.
The ability to move 12" a turn and keep up with the other mobile elements of the list
18" range of the carbine is lessened as a restriction by the ability to move 6" and move 6" back in the assault phase.
Better survivability due to jump shoot jump move.
Better stats in close combats, superior INT to standard FW's
Same save as a FW and equivilent LDS
Ability to deep strike if needed, giving more tactical flexibility
Ability to pin enhanced by markerlights
No need for expensive transports, which means the points are being put into firepower
Scoring units, transports are not.
two units of FW in warfish comes to 500pts the 3 units of drones, 1 unit of FW with ML and the Kroot come to 491 and for that your getting:
The same mobility as the Devilfish 12"
More units 5 as opposed to 2
More firepower 5 units as opposed to 2 and the Devilfish.
More flexibility, you have 5 units to respond with not just two
More scoring units and more chances of capturing objectives etc
The only downside I can see is slightly smaller squads than FW, but having more units will ensure opponents fire is split more (more targets) and the drones are much better at using cover by jumping over, shooting and jumping back behind cover.
I quite like the idea, it is cheap and offers lots of flexibility, the only other problem is with players who use fast attack slots, but I don't use vespids or Piranha's.
What do you lot think, does it have some potential
Hmm... I could see the idea having potential.
The only thing I would be worried about is getting to objectives - Devilfish are great for that. Also, against fast, assault-based armies, the additional protection of the skimmers would be sorely missed.
In a general way, or even coupled with one or two Devilfish squads, I could see it working. But I, personally, prefer the reliability of the Devilfish.
You lose the Kroot but you get the FW and DF plus its more mechie.
The Drones could get to objectives fast, so I do not see that as a real problem and they are better suited to keeping an objective with the ability to jump out of the cover for added range, fire and then jump back in (or float slowly, the equiv of walking) into the cover plus they have better INT so are better at CC if a unit uses frags etc.
Also, if an objective isn't in cover, though this is a last-resort sort of tactic.. a lucky roll on the damage table could give you a piece of Devilfish-like cover. :yes:
I like the idea of 3 full squads of drones. I actually have 24 free gun drones +12 drones on tanks plus a few attached to suits. I really like gun drones. Your idea has merit Riki, and it works too. It can be done very nicely and easily, there isn't actually much of a difference compared to regular firewarriors, less static tho, little more mobile, but they play similarly. The only thing I would miss would be the FoF, which is an excellent tactic.
You should try it out (or I will next time I play, maybe this weekend). Then post a battle report and tell us how it worked out.
Turtles For the Turtle God!
Shells For the Shell Throne!
My counter point knowing your previous tactics.
Don't you normally use Gun drones to create your ring of protection around your HQ units.
If so then you would lose the tactical effectiveness of your "troops" as they are used on the HQ's. Obviously for each unit that you use a drone shield you effectively lose a "troop" choice.
Then on the other hand if you don't use them to protect your Helios Commanders, they suddenly become much more high risk options due to the closer range requirements without having as much protection.
Do you see what I mean?
Just a querry as to how that would affect your tactics.
I do love my gun drones. But I would feel strange not having my two units of FW's in fish.
I don't care what you say. I found a lightsaber in my garage and that makes me a Jedi
Yeah, that would feel weird. I love having 4-6 skimmers suddenly 12 inches closer to my enemies, it really strikes fear in their little plastic hearts. Maybe sacrifice one of those for deepstriking or regular drones. If you get the roll, drop the drones behind some squad you are FOFing, bye bye enemy squad.
You could devote one of the drone squads to protect your commander still. Space marine characters join troop squads all the time, tau should join the drones acting as troop nicely, yet still remain in IC status. It would work nicely, but the drones and lack of skimmers would make it fairly fragile. Especially to blast weapons.
Turtles For the Turtle God!
Shells For the Shell Throne!
I've had similar thoughts myself, riki. And I'd do it -- drones are awesome! -- except I do so love all the Tau Empire's Fast Attack choices. Yes, even Vespids. (And once I'm happy with how my pure Tau-unit-only army functions, I'll start polluting it with the likes of Vespid and, of course, Kroot, too.)
However, for those of us not using many Fast Attack slots, dropping in drones seems like an obvious winner. I would still mount my fire warriors in a devilfish, however. Always, always. Makes that initial investment pricier, but not egregiously so. One mounted FW squad, one unit of Kroot... few armies can fulfill their minimums so effectively for that price.
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
As to the ring of protection, this would not be that much of a problem actually, as the commanders are usually used to pop transports and the drones and FW in my list usually decimate the passengers, however with multiple units of drones the chances of pinning get more likely and entangled makes the possibility of units being stopped dead.
The drone squad is never attached to the commander and often go their own merry way depending on tactical situations, I actually see it the opposite way round as a major benefit having two or three units of drones all able to protect the commander or go heir own way, lots of flexibility.
Also the drones will never lose turns of shooting because they are in vehilces but can keep up just as well.
I think my 2000pt list is going to look very different soon, waht with Deathrains, Skyrays and multiple drone squads.
I do not think I would actually miss the Devilfish, I used to only use one in my hybrid list, so I am used to a list without them and the points (170 for 2 standard and 240 for Warfish) will certainly be useful.