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  1. #1
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    A tactical conundrum

    I had an idea about starting a little game here I'll set a question describing a scenario, then people try to say what the best thing to do is (thers only one right answer I'm setting it up that way) whoever gets it right mods teh scenario (adding a unit, changing one, moving one, whatever) and then the game continues until someone gets there conundrum right. (If somone gets a right answer, but doesn't want to post a new question I'll post a new un for them)

    OK heres the first scenario, a simple one to begin.

    You are in the closing stages of a Recon mission, its been bloody and there are only 3 units left alive.

    A space marine squad 16" from your table edge in a rhino facing your table edge, this contains 8 marines of an original 10 man squad.

    A disembarked raider squad 9" behind (away from your table edge) that rhino with their raider in coherence, the squad consists of a Blaster warrior a Splinter Cannon warrior, a Sybarite with agoniser and two splinter Rifle warriors of an original 10 man squad.

    3" behind them and 4" to their left (a full 29" from your table edge) is another diembarked raider squad consiting of a Blaster warrior a Splinter Cannon warrior, a Sybarite with agoniser and one splinter Rifle warrior of an original 10 man squad.

    The marine squads orriginal points cost was 230 points

    Each of the Raider squads original point costs were 176 points

    The game was a 1500 point game to begin with

    It is turn 6 and you are playing second, it is your turn.

    Ok what is the right set of moves to maximise chances of victory? Go.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member TzarNikolai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karantalsis View Post
    I had an idea about starting a little game here I'll set a question describing a scenario, then people try to say what the best thing to do is (thers only one right answer I'm setting it up that way) whoever gets it right mods teh scenario (adding a unit, changing one, moving one, whatever) and then the game continues until someone gets there conundrum right. (If somone gets a right answer, but doesn't want to post a new question I'll post a new un for them)

    OK heres the first scenario, a simple one to begin.

    You are in the closing stages of a Recon mission, its been bloody and there are only 3 units left alive.

    A space marine squad 16" from your table edge in a rhino facing your table edge, this contains 8 marines of an original 10 man squad.

    A disembarked raider squad 9" behind (away from your table edge) that rhino with their raider in coherence, the squad consists of a Blaster warrior a Splinter Cannon warrior, a Sybarite with agoniser and two splinter Rifle warriors of an original 10 man squad.

    3" behind them and 4" to their left (a full 29" from your table edge) is another diembarked raider squad consiting of a Blaster warrior a Splinter Cannon warrior, a Sybarite with agoniser and one splinter Rifle warrior of an original 10 man squad.

    The marine squads orriginal points cost was 230 points

    Each of the Raider squads original point costs were 176 points

    The game was a 1500 point game to begin with

    It is turn 6 and you are playing second, it is your turn.

    Ok what is the right set of moves to maximise chances of victory? Go.
    each squad is 121 points of scoring unit right? and the space marines are 230 or 180 (ie, including the rhino or not?)

    if its the last turn of the game then they can't claim as they have no turn left. only one of your raider squads is a scoring unit and it can potentially get you 121 points by jumping on the raider and scooting into their zone (neither raider could claim, the last squad is below half strength.) so that would give you 121 vp's + (1500-230) (ish)

    you get 1391, he gets 1500 - (176 + 1/2 176) 1236
    you win by 155 (minor victory?)

    if you're close enough you can hoof it over to the rhino with the 5 man squad and try and block the exits, doing the same with their raider. raider would probably be able to shoot but warriors would have to give it up to fleet if they're 9" away.
    the other raider squad (not sure about distance) can either try and get within shooting distance of the rhino on foot or by jumping on the raider which has to get within blaster range. (i haven't really understood your distances, perhaps a diagram?)
    if you manage to penetrate the rhino with a lance each from the raiders and a blaster shot the marines bail out and die. if you kill the rhino they bail out (around here there's some contention on whether they can stay 1" away by getting out on top of the wreck) potentially die but may take some warriors with them if the rhino explodes.

    this approach would give you: 1500 vp's for killing all of his stuff (or 1450 if rhino survives)) and he gets 1500 - 176 + (1/2 176) or 1236. margin being 1500-1236 = 264 (still a minor victory)

    if you're playing for tourney points then you get a minor victory (usually 13) either way but the first one is guaranteed whereas the second one has around 4 different things that can go wrong.

    i guess jump in the raider and zoom off is the best one.

  4. #3
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TzarNikolai View Post
    each squad is 121 points of scoring unit right? and the space marines are 230 or 180 (ie, including the rhino or not?)

    if its the last turn of the game then they can't claim as they have no turn left. only one of your raider squads is a scoring unit and it can potentially get you 121 points by jumping on the raider and scooting into their zone (neither raider could claim, the last squad is below half strength.) so that would give you 121 vp's + (1500-230) (ish)

    you get 1391, he gets 1500 - (176 + 1/2 176) 1236
    you win by 155 (minor victory?)

    if you're close enough you can hoof it over to the rhino with the 5 man squad and try and block the exits, doing the same with their raider. raider would probably be able to shoot but warriors would have to give it up to fleet if they're 9" away.
    the other raider squad (not sure about distance) can either try and get within shooting distance of the rhino on foot or by jumping on the raider which has to get within blaster range. (i haven't really understood your distances, perhaps a diagram?)
    if you manage to penetrate the rhino with a lance each from the raiders and a blaster shot the marines bail out and die. if you kill the rhino they bail out (around here there's some contention on whether they can stay 1" away by getting out on top of the wreck) potentially die but may take some warriors with them if the rhino explodes.

    this approach would give you: 1500 vp's for killing all of his stuff (or 1450 if rhino survives)) and he gets 1500 - 176 + (1/2 176) or 1236. margin being 1500-1236 = 264 (still a minor victory)

    if you're playing for tourney points then you get a minor victory (usually 13) either way but the first one is guaranteed whereas the second one has around 4 different things that can go wrong.

    i guess jump in the raider and zoom off is the best one.
    Yeah you pretty much got it. The way to maximise victory is to hop on the raider and head to thier zone, have your other (non scoring) raider squad hop on theri raider and move over to the rhino to shoot it with the blaster and lance.

    Didn't expect that one to cause anyone much difficulty. I'm sorry about the lack of picture I posted it while at work so had no way of making and uploading one.

    Your floor now Tzar, make it tougher, change a few things, or heck make a totally new scenario. .

  5. #4
    Senior Member TzarNikolai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by karantalsis View Post
    Yeah you pretty much got it. The way to maximise victory is to hop on the raider and head to thier zone, have your other (non scoring) raider squad hop on theri raider and move over to the rhino to shoot it with the blaster and lance.
    actually if its facing your board edge then it may be better not to shoot it on the of chance you penetrate the rhino but don't kill it and the marines manage to spill out into your deployment zone. (haven't checked but it might be possible to cram 8 marines in with the 2.99999" disembark you get.)


    Quote Originally Posted by karantalsis View Post
    Didn't expect that one to cause anyone much difficulty. I'm sorry about the lack of picture I posted it while at work so had no way of making and uploading one.

    Your floor now Tzar, make it tougher, change a few things, or heck make a totally new scenario. .
    i'm actually kind of stumped to come up with one that has only one real answer. can you do another one?

  6. #5
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TzarNikolai View Post
    actually if its facing your board edge then it may be better not to shoot it on the of chance you penetrate the rhino but don't kill it and the marines manage to spill out into your deployment zone. (haven't checked but it might be possible to cram 8 marines in with the 2.99999" disembark you get.)




    i'm actually kind of stumped to come up with one that has only one real answer. can you do another one?
    Sure, tommorow I am very tired so it owuld be nonsense,

  7. #6
    Senior Member Psipher19's Avatar
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    Sorry guys. But troops inside transports aren't where the transport is. When embarked, models are removed from the table and don't count as being anywhere. This is covered in the 4ed rulebook faq. So you actually end up with 0 scoring units in the enemy's deployment zone and a draw.

    This is the same rule that prohibits psychic powers from being cast inside transports.

    -Leo
    Last edited by Psipher19; May 2nd, 2007 at 08:59.
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  8. #7
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    Thats not how I read that erratta. Its says that they aren't physically on the table and "can't do anything". I have never seen it ruled that existing counts as "doin something". Nor have I ever seen models in a transport dissallowed from counting as scoring units. Maybe we could move this to the rules forum though so I can post another puzzle (which won't have this point of contention) here.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Psipher19's Avatar
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    Sorry! I don't wanna turn this into a rules debate so I won't post further on this but...
    I don't see how you can capture an objective (in this case the deployment zone) while you aren't at it. For the very same reason that a model in reserve can't capture an objective, nor can a unit in a transport.

    Now post the next conundrum so I don't threadjack this!:ninja:

    -Leo
    "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner"
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    -Guns don't kill people, bullets do.-

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  10. #9
    Senior Member TzarNikolai's Avatar
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    if you use the faq and the models aren't on the table then your opponent gets full vp's for them. (subject to interpretation, but i think thats just the tiniest bit harsh and unrealistic)

    stupid faq causes more problems then it solves. damn you GW!

  11. #10
    Karrot Dialysis karantalsis's Avatar
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    The opponent is a marine player again and once more it is the last turn of the game, he won't get to go again this time seek and destroy the remaining forces are as follows (original points 1500):

    Space Marine

    Land Raider Crusader
    Assault Terminators (6/6 left)
    Tactical squad with Las/Plas (9/10 left)

    Dark Eldar

    Dractie, Agoniser, Splinter Pistol, Combat Drugs, Shadow Field
    1 Sniper squad 6 men left originally 10 strong
    2 15 man warrior squads with splinter cannons and blasters, both down to 8 men
    1 ravager with two disintegrators left

    The sniper squad is out of range of teh enemy and the ravager is stunned, the dracite is within charge range of all enemy units and the two splineter cannon squads can bring their cannons, but not there blasters to bear on any target they wish.

    When the dracite moves she will be committed to charging one target (too far away from the others after moving).

    How do you maximise your chances of winning?

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