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I've been looking through the DE codex for the first time in along while and my eyes settled upon one of our most uselss heavy suppurt, Scourges. Now I have been thinking for X points to get splinter cannons don't you think it should be upgraded somehow. Whether it has a lower Ap valve (ap 3 splinter cannons :wub Even an Ap 4, splinter cannons I think would make these ladies and gentlemen worth their points in a game. So what are your thoughts on this?
Last edited by Lost Nemesis; April 28th, 2007 at 20:36.
Scourges need to be moved to fast attack. Given assualt weapons, and made cheaper.
Prey they don't take you alive
Dark lances should be made more expensive and should become assault weapons. An army as mobile as DE should not be bogged down with heavy weapons. That would make scourges a lot more attractive, and would change the entire way DE sniper squads are played.
Really, the combination of heavy weapons and flight just doesn't make sense. Either the heavy weapons should be made assault/rapid fire, or Scourges need to be made into fast attack units with assault weapons and we need a new havoc equivalent DE unit that can field larger numbers of splinter cannons and dark lances at a higher price. It's not like they'd even have to release new models for it.
Then again, I'm firmly convinced that the only thing needed to make Hellions viable again is to make hellglaives assault 1. I have entirely too many good ideas that I don't have the means to test. :p
As to scourges, yes we do need more assault options. As to making dark lances assault 1, that's just a scary thought. Everything just got 5pts per lance more expensive, at least.
This is a tangent that is totally my fault. *Hangs head in shame*
From my (admittedly limited) understanding of the 3rd ed rapid fire rules, rapid fire weapons could be fired at the enemy when you charged into CC. It was replaced in 4th with the current rapid fire rules.
Taking that into account, I think Hellions were originally supposed to be terrifying on the charge and worthless when dug in. So they'd not only get the usual charge bonus, but they'd also get the S bonus they still have, and a free splinter rifle shot on the way in to boot. I think Hit and Run is there to take as much advantage of that up front damage as possible.
Now that Rapid Fire stops you from assaulting, they basically stripped away 1/3 of the benefits Hellions get when charging without anything to make up for it. And that really ruins the entire "scary when charging" part while keeping the "worthless when dug in" portion.
Making hellglaives assault 1 would neatly fix that and put them back where I think they were originally supposed to be: a rinse and repeat charge unit that gets eaten alive if they stick around too long.
Not that adding another attack wouldn't work, but I think it would break the point of the unit unless it was an extra attack on the charge only.
Hmm, that got a little wordier than I intended.
Also, you cannot shoot the hellglaive then assault with it. You can however shoot then use it in close combat if you get my meaning. You can shoot, get assaulted and use it close combat. Just goes to show how useless hellions are. Scourges > Hellions.
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What about giving them the ability to assult the turn when they deep strike? Or would that make them abit to scary.
I think that jetpacks and heavy weapons are mutually exclusive of each other and that if anything has to be changed its the weapons not the jetpacks.
The weapons must be more assault orientated and the jetpacks able to be chosen as wargear. This might mean that you could have-
a 5 man Scourge squad with the possibilty of 4 dark lances and no jetpacks, with less points cost factored in, (ultra sniper squad)
a 5 man Scourge squad with the possibility of 4 splinter cannons and no jetpacks, with less points cost factored in,(heavy hitiing and cheaper against troops),
a 5 man Scourge squad with assault weapons and jetpacks that could actually do something after deep striking ( just like they were intended in copying Space Marines assault squads).
The Scourge wings (jetpacks) should be moved into the armoury as an option for Characters and Scourges, this would enhance our mobilty even more and is inline with our army strengths.
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves.