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Ok let us begin. I have been playing 40K for a couple of years now, i went from my BT (eww) to my semi-mobile raven guard and now i am looking for an army with some real firepower + movement. I have been reading posts (god forbid i actually comment) around the tau forums and i think the best type of Tau force for me is a Hybrid army.
I basiccaly see my army with some fire warriors, possibly mounted in devilfish later and some crisis suits to handle the elites. later i will depate on getting some hammerheads for real tank-busting action, but for now im focusing on xv8's and FW's (look at me, i've already got some of the lingo down :yes: )
For the moment i am looking to get a 500 point-ish list going for a small doubles tourny that me and 3 freinds are doing in wich we will randomize the teams each time. I have a few specific, and probably very noobish questions to get me going in the right direction. oh and for reference, my freind play, nids (big time horde) an all grey knghts list, and and eldar cc list (yea it weird, but hes probably the most skilled general and he usually pulls it off with all melee aspect warriors and some guardian squads).
1. well what would be a "all rounder" setup for my geeral, ive already decided on a shas'el especially on this points cost and because of some select posts by a certain rikimaru. but what i am really interested in is, given the randomness of my enemies is, which wepons/systems would be good against most unit types from my enemy.
2. Fire Warriors: basically i want to know what sort of squad sizes i should take and what (if any) wargear i should take on a shas'ui or if i should even take it.
3 lastly, yes i have read the crisis suit guide by rikimaru, but i am simply wondering if i skimp a little on the FW points could/should i take some(a) crisis suit as an elite also?
Any replies are greatly appreciated,
-The Architect of the Penitent
-is working on [I]another[I] marine army :). not sure wich chapter or if im gonna make up my own chapter. If you blokes got any suggestions to make it interesting, send me a private message, thanks.
Okay, as far as the shas'ui, if you are strapped for points, don't take him. He's not really worth his points, neither is the single markerlight he can buy. For this army I would reccommend something a bit unconvential (although many like them).
Gun drones. They are highly mobile, can lay down some serious pinning firepower, and stay out of assault range.
You should also get at least 1 Devilfish and 1 HH. Skimmers are awesome, especially with FoF.
(Fish of Fury, dismount and rapid fire, w/devilfish in the way so enemy can't assault you). Then take a commander shas'el with a target array. He is as good as a 'O, for less points. Take plasma rifles in this case. With the points left over, get a stealth squad and 1 or 2 crisis suits. They will be necessary against the Grey Knights, while still being of use against horde armies. Stealth suits on the other hand devastate horde armies like crazy.
Also, as you are new, expirement and find for yourself which units are good for you, and which you don't like. Personally I don't like Kroot. I don't know why, I just don't. But they can be used excellently, and many make entire armies out of them.
Broadsides? Erm, I don't think broadsides would be good enough against horde armies or have enough of them to fight effectively against Grey Knights at this points level. A cheap hammerhead w burst cannons is good because it's submunition can take out whole squads of enemies, while the single shot is anti-tank anti-meq. If you're really strapped for points, make it an Ion-Head, which will do fairly well against both armies.
Hope I helped
Turtles For the Turtle God!
Shells For the Shell Throne!
A 500 point game you say?
In a mock up of a 500 point list i made i managed to field a Hammerhead (man i love those things), a Fireknife Shas'el (thats Plasma Rifle/Missile Pod setup) and 3 small units of Fire Warriors (for marker light support).
How many lists put a Heavy Tank in a small game? Well, most Tau lists put tanks in everything...
Ok, onto some specifics.
Shas'el with Fireknife is a good all rounder. With a Plasma Rifle, missile pod and targeting array (and of course HW Multi tracker) he will be able to deal with most things.
For Fire Warrior squads you can either take 1 or 2 large units and use them as fire basses, or several small units, put markerlights in them and use them as firebase/markerlights.
For taking XV8's in a small game? A good, cheap XV8 is called the Deathrain. TW Missile Pods and Targeting Array. Total cost is about 50's points range. On average it will pay its self off in about 2/4 turns depending on your opponent.
Any more questions just ask
I too am new to all this Tau and have been playing with them for the past 3 months or so.
Ive been playing mostly 500 point against Nid's, Grey Nights, eldar (but my mate hasn't quite ogt the idea yet!) and Chaos so some things ive learnt:
a) stealth suits can be totally deadly against horde armies. but you have to make sure you stay at extreme range against Nids (stealers are deadly) since you can easily get caught out by fleet of foot
b) Crisis suits with twin linked missle pods will deal with anything very well. keep em in decent cover and use the range the missle pod and jump shoot jump gives you to either whittle down his hordes or take down his power armour
c) never leave home without a hammerhead. Railguns work best since you have the sub munition rounds but if your struggling for points and ionhead with do a good job as it has plenty of dice and a decent AP
d) if you can squeeze a devilfish in do so. with the right terrain a Fish of Fury against any Nid's with a bunch of fire warriors out the back rapid firing can be deadly.
e) take decent sized squads of firewarrior - I never take squads of less than 10. its gives you decent firing if you stand still but rapid fire with 20 shots at very decent strength and low AP will rip apart anything thats not got power armour or similar and Nids without extended carapace are swiss cheese.
f) use your crisis suits as threat management. move them were you need them most. they are not invicible death machines like a wraithlord. terrain and jump shoot jump is your friend.
g) your HQ is not there to have every bit of wargera dangling off him, especially at 500 points. keep him as a shas'el with a target array as LBM said. plasma rifle and missle pod is my fave weapons combo for him.
h) do not take burst cannons on your crisis suits. this is the job of your stealths and your XV8's should be dealing with armour. If you are playing against hordes nids with few creatures and no extended carapace then maybe you MIGHT think about it, but you have to remember you are losing high strength low AP weapons that when they hit will pretty much kill.
i) Avoid XV88's at this points level. the threat of armour is too low and you will not need to control fire lanes as much (the XV88 is too slow to act as threat response...lleave this to your crisis and railhead) Those twin linked railguns are great but when you can't shoot those grey knight terminators because of their shroud yoru wasting an AP1 weapon.
Im at work so i havent got any lists or my codex with me (its in the boot with the lads ready for a Bl'ast tonight!) so i can't give you any details.
Hope this helps.
Enjoy and welcome to the greater good.
Last edited by xsickpeoplex; May 4th, 2007 at 10:03.
ill respond to one of your Q's the FireKnife or DeathRain config IMO are the 2 best "all-rounders" for crisis suits. with the helios comming in 3rd place.
yeah take fireknifes as a the best all round suit for your army, ou may also want to try include some stealth suits if you can because their ability to fire 9 S5 AP5 shots per turn from a 3 man squad or 18 from a full squad of 6 is quite useful against light infantry and then stuff like marines will die if you make them take enough saves, so stealths used along with crisis or firewarriors will be quite effective. in small games if you field stealth suits use a squad of 3.
"You will die deamon and we will reopen the gateway and make our way to the sacred artifacts."
"Die? don't you know, spartans never die"
Shas'El helios multi, this will be able to deal with anything thrown at it (including armour, Characters, dreads etc) 97pts
I would take a squad of 9 FW's in a DF with decoys 175pts
2 Monat XV8's with twin linked missile pods and targeting arrays, field them as lone teams 106pts total.
4 Stealths 120pts
total points 498
This list will be able to deal with anything that a 500pts army can throw at it.
The Devilfish offers mobility.
The XV8 contingent offers massive amounts of high strength firepower (foe 500pts anyway) at really good accuracy levels and wil be able to handle any heavy stuff up to and including AV13 (AV14 for the helios).
The stealths and Firewarriors will be plenty enough to deal with infantry and the Stealths are at a good unit strength as they will need to lose 2 to test at 25% and 3 for under 50%.
Hope that helps.
I would like to add my voice to the chorus of support behind the Fireknife for the HQ. At 500 pts, I think he's the best choice. You can keep him at a decent distance, and always safe, and he's easier to learn to use than a Helios. That is, he's flexible and perfect to use when starting out with Tau. Start experimenting with Helios suits once you have more points and more game experience. Besides, it's highly unlikely you'll need to worry overmuch about uber-characters and/or uber-tanks at this points level. An AP 2 weapon and a dual-shot S 7 weapon for 97 pts is a pretty good deal. :yes:
For troops, I would also agree that taking at least one mounted squad of Fire Warriors in a Devilfish is recommended. Performing a "fish of fury" can be truly devastating, even without markerlight support. Try and take 10-12 warriors for this squad, use the 'fish as a ranging light tank, and close in for the rapid-fire kill when you can.
Second troops choice: I'd go either static fire warriors -- a full 12 models, shas'ui w/markerlight -- or some Kroot. Whatever suits your fancy most; they do entirely different things.
After that comes your anti-armour considerations. You won't have to worry about any of that when facing tyranids or grey knights. (If the GK player fields anything it would be a single dreadnought. If so, you shouldn't have any trouble wiping out his puny troops squads, probably winning you the game right there. In any case, the dread only has AV 12, so it's not that hard to pop; you don't need railguns for it, that's for sure.) The eldar player will almost certainly have wave serpents or, if they're willing to blow half their points on a single model, a falcon that you will not be able to kill. While the 'nids might bring a monster or two (or three, actually) at 500 pts, massed fire can take them down. In no case will you be requiring any weapon stronger than S6 to deal with your opponents, so I'd be looking for as many high-strength/low-AP shots as are possible for the points. Inarguably, that would be a hammerhead with an ion cannon and burst cannons (a mere 130 pts can get you one of these). Also good would be one or two monat deathrain XV8 suits.
If, after all these considerations, you still have points left over, I'd look to do any of the following (in no particular order):
* Fill out un-maxed fire warrior squads (get 'em all to 12)
* Turn your devilfish into a warfish (add smart missiles, targeting array, and multi-tracker)
* Increase your existing Kroot squad (add Kroot and/or hounds), or get another one; even 10 Kroot for a paltry 70 points are awesome, especially in low points games
* Add an XV8 suit; deathrains are cheapest, and definitely useful, especially in low points games
ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
RIP Warhammer 40,000: 21 Sep 1998 - 24 May 2014
Thanks for pointing it out.
So taking into account the 2 troops choice restriction, I would go for this
1 XV8 helios Shas'El 97pt
1 XV8 Deathrain 53pts
8 Fire warriors in a DF 160pts
10 Kroot 70pts
4 Stealths 120ps
The Helios and deathrain should handle any armour, the FW and stealths should deal with infantry and the Kroot offer 10 shots plus some CC if needed, they can also infiltrate to offer some tactical flexibility.
While it is tempting to lose a Stealth to maximise the FW squad I would not bother, in 500pts the stealths will probably do more damage and are very survivable.
8 FW still offer 16 shots rapid fire and this should be enough.
If you want to take a Hammerhead then go for the Ion as 6 said but I really would not bother as in the majority of games the stealths would be more useful and the commander and deathrain are very accurate.
Again sorry about the error, must concentrate harder.
Stealth suits are nice but I would rather go with an ionhead. Against grey knights, ionheads are awesome.
Units that I think would be essential against all three opponents are:
- Ionhead. Good number of shots, medium strength, low ap. Can take out grey knights instantly, can deal with tyrannid creatures, and can deal with most vehicles.
- Fireknife HQ. Overall flexible unit. Both weapons ideal for most enemies.
- FW's in DF. Effectiveness already stated.
Here is a 500 points list I would take
+ Fireknife Config.
+ Targetting Array
+ Decoy launchers
+ Ion cannon
+ Burst cannons
+ Decoy launchers
+ Targetting Array
This list offers powerful anti infantry from the two squads of fire warriors, low ap weapons from the ionhead and fireknife and 1 heavy tank.
Just some of my thoughts. Never really played against eldar but had a lot of experience with Grey knights and I have watched tyrannid battles. Good luck with the tournament!