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I am interested to see how everyone uses them since there is quite alot of uses for haemonculi, how do haemonculi come into your battles. The main use seems to be to stick them in a warrior or grotesque squad and throw them up the field for some fun.
In my opinion one of the most fun HQ types to use since u can have three for one HQ option, that they have weird and wonderful wargear, that u can choose many ways to play. they can be very unpredictable, but when they do work they work good. As i said earlier 3 per HQ choice, meaning u can split them up and mix it about.
there are many other uses other than the basic warrior and grotesque squad, i'm interested to hear equipment you give them, what tatic's you use. Any other types of squads you use them for, if you give them reavers or skyboards, do u ever play them solo? use 6" rules for independant character being 6" or under to your own squad when shot at etc.
I can write a very long tactica on them but I will paraphrase and make it short.
I usually put 2 Haemys in a raider full of grotesques (normally 8 of them). One haemy is going to lead the grots and the other is either deploying the wwp or they are both positioning to line up multiple destructor templates on an enemy squad. Since I use them for deploying the wwp I normally have them on the board to start with and they are to move forward for getting a good advanced location for the portal. Once everyone disembarks from the raider, the wwp haemy will separate while the other haemy leading the grots are "screening" the wwp haemy. I like 2nd turn deployment of the wwp so this method really ensures a good chance of working. If they do get shot before disembarking you are likely to lose only half your squad and now the haemys are entangled in 4+ terrain and because of the grots they now get to ignore str.5 weapons and get a 4+ cover save against the str.6+ guns. Worst case, the Haemys deploy the portal as soon as they are untangled at the 12" deployment zone. (I also use this configuration when playing a normal Kabal list as well).
Since the Haemys are not "stuck" with the grots, they can separate anytime depending on what I want to do. I like to give them combat drugs as this increases their CC effectiveness. The drugs allow the Haemy to put as many attacks on the enemy as to kill them by saving throw. I would rather have the Haemy shoot with their destructors as much as possible but you cannot avoid close combat. I have no problem with giving them combat drugs as I believe it really helps them alot.
I used to put one on a jetbike but lately I have used them on foot. While on the bike, the added toughness is nice but the strength bonus is wasted. While on the bike I usually avoid close combat altogether always trying to line up a destructor shot. Skyboards would offer the same mobility and currently I am trying the Haemys out on them. One thing to remember when using Haemys on bikes or boards is that they are considered "skilled riders" so they do get to re-roll failed dangerous terrain rolls.
So in a coven list I usually have 2 squads of grots with 2 haemys in each raider. The remaining Haemys are placed with raider squads that are geared with pinning weapons. The idea is to pin whenever possible to rapidfire and destructor them to death. Sometimes when I cant pin the unit they will have to charge in and having a Haemy on drugs really boosts the kill ratio even though they are only poison attacks. I usually dont run Haemys alone on foot but when the opportunity arrises that I can get 2 or 3 destructor templates down in a crossfire I will separate them when needed.
As for gear - destructor, scissorhands, combat drugs, trophy racks (for grot leaders), haywires and sometimes plasma. Haywires dont work as well as I had hoped but to me they are a last ditch effort to kill some armor. Plasma is kinda wasted too because of the Haemys low initiative - usually I have to take the "always strikes first" drug when playing against average initiative armies so plasma is optional. Trophy racks are there due to their average leadership - chances are they will kill at least one in CC and to me the 1 increase in leadership is important. I dont bother with the stinger - I have tried it and I am not impressed with it.
The shadowfield is sometimes used too however if I am using a jetbike or skyboard I feel they need the shadowfield the most. However, when all my haemys are assigned to a squad I find that I dont really need it or I just cant spend even more points to protect him casually.
So there you have it - they are a "shooty lord" choice. Some keep them cheap and use them mostly to deploy the portal so the way I play them is not normal but "unorthodox".
Yes they are wasted, couse you can't use plasma grenades with scissorhand - they are poisoned blades so cannot be combined with anything even p.grenades.Plasma is kinda wasted
I've used to take 3 haemonculis on bikes, one with shadow field. They were pretty good against almost anything and the one with SF was really tough. I also used 3 haemonculis on skyboard coming out of the portal against guard - they were awsome, every one of them killed 10 men squads in two turns, and then, another one
The most fun use of them was for an early assault force, I've been taking six haemonculis with combat drugs and scissorhands in two or three riders with warriors, they assaulted enemy squads in first turn giving me time to position my wyches for assault and blocking line of sight with combat.
"One must do violence to the object of one's desire; when it surrenders, the pleasure is greater."
Marquis De Sade
Few words about my uses:
1.With grotesques, hamonculus is a must. Yet I dont use grots too often and dont think anyone else does either.
2.Independents character on a skyboard/bike with a destuctor and scissornad, this way he can make a fairly decent light infantry and swarm hunter
3.With a raider squad, usualy against swarms where the raider zips around, warriors hoze the swarm down while hamonculus hozes those that got lucky to get within range of his destructor which is a great weapon for its points
4.WWP carrier, this one is obvious, joining grots or warriors and has one role, and one role only. To put that template down before getting torn to bits.
5.HQ support unit, take anywhere between 1-3 with destructors in a retonue of a lord with incubi. When assaulting a giant unit of light/heavy infantry those destructors soften the enemy squad for a charge of the incubi, in hopes of breaking them on a charge. Especialy helpful whan a lord has animus vitae.
6.A hamonculus in HQ with random equipments when you have nothing else to waste your points on, mostly fluff reason.
Wow, I have been playing DE for two years now and completely missed that part in the PB description! I don't normally use Haemies as I normally run a cult and I only use PB's on a cheap dracite who is a portal deployer. Thanks very much for pointing that out. You learn something every day.Yes they are wasted, couse you can't use plasma grenades with scissorhand - they are poisoned blades so cannot be combined with anything even p.grenades.
I like the idea of joining 2 to a grotesque squad for WWP deployment, something so basic but at the same time I never thought off, nice idea i'm laughing at myself now :yes:
Combat drugs is a new one for me too, i would have never did that to a heamy, gonna give that a try in my next battle.
I cant understand how u would lose half a squad if the raider downed, maybe that's the way you play? dishing out the wounds you take so you lift a model for every 2 wounds. don't have rule book here so maybe i'm wrong. I play it 1 wound for each model and take note of how many of them took a wound if this happens.
I had also considered this, joining 2-3 grotesques to a hellion squad, yeah! i know what ur gonna say, hellions are crap, however i think with this in mind it will make that crap squad good again, alot of points i know.
Consider this u got 2-3 destructors in a hit and run squad with great movement, not to mention that u have now just made that squad alot more effective at CC. I'm quite fearful its overkill. i do like the idea of it though, what i mean is using the destrutors and killing the rest of enemy unit in CC, leaving ur hellions wide open to enemies shooting. If it does work though having 2-3 destructors with hit and run option would be mental. you can protect your heamies with a large squad, then break ur heamies from that squad if things go wrong.(lose hit and run at this point) also if u are left wide open 5+ inv jink save is helpful, not great but helpful. in my opinion this is a squad that will bring as much fear as wyches and your incubi to the table.
bikes is another option however, damn expensive so i would rather have numbers not to mention hit and run at a cheaper price, i like hellions for hit and run its quite effective on horde armies like orks and nids who i do play alot, if you know what your doing.
I love unorthodoxed ideas :w00t:
This either works really well, or not at all. The Haemi's don't get hit and run from the skyboard, and I'm not sure if the special rule for the unit carries over the IC or not. If it works, it's very terrifyingly nifty, as long as you don't get the combat drug rule that means you can't withdraw.
This makes me wonder about assault weapons like flamers in hit and run squads. That's just scary.
i would assume that they may not use the hit and run maneuover, i know that the cannoness in a SoB army does not get it if she joins seraphim. and i have no reason to believe this case would be any different. nice thought though
last couple of games ive used a haemonoculus instead of an archon because he was cheaper (although my dracon is only 58 points anyway). i use him to lead my raider squads in and lend a hand with shooting.
the destructor really inspires terror in the hearts of our foes. should get urien rakarth, his auto wound, such a nice ability!
i support the use of haemonoculi!
Giving combat drugs to haemonculi? For me that's a big no from the beginning, I feel that combat drugs are wasted on them, they aren't worth it... Basically for something to have a combat drugs dispenser think it requires 2 wounds (check) and a nasty killy power weapon of sorts, plus for the model to be able to keep said investment alive. Same logic applies to giving drugs to succubi and sybarites, 1 wound means taking even 2 drugs is risky. Another point is that they won't benefit from them nearly as much as say an archon, re-rolling misses... you get 2 roll 1 more poisoned blades... re-roll misses you get to kill another marine with a punisher! big difference to me. 1 more killer power weapon attack or 1 more attack that allows an armour save? Always strikes first to maybe kill one marine if you are lucky or always strikes first to kill 3 or 4 and empty the kill zone so nobody can hit back? I think I've made my point.
I also think trophy racks are wasteful and are really just a points filler, I can understand them on sybarites and even succubi but not on HQ's... haywire... sure they're cheap, but will they really ever use them?
I use them for:
a) a cheap HQ when I don't want a proper one. Attaching to a raider squad or wych squad and softening up the enemy with a destructor and possibly jumping into combat with that scissorhand.
b) WWP carriers, they are much more effective than sybarites at this job and the only reason I would ever keep sybarites with this job instead is if I was either short on points or had already filled both HQ choices (one is nearly always taken with dracon+incubi but I often don't take an archon or a shadowfield).
c) jetbike wonders.... move in, throw down a template, hope the t5 holds and get the heck out of there, hopefully the 6" assault jump move (don't debate it here please) can get them behind some scenery or something. Rinse and repeat. If you're only using 1 like this than a shadowfield would be neat. t5 and 2++ save is not an easy nut to crack. He might not be worth it though... a bit expensive for a haemonculus...
Tenozuma - The Burninator... I came, I saw, I posted.Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
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Well, i havent bought the army yet, (though i do proxy..) but im planning on using them as my, well, psykers..kinda.
To keep them in line with my Dark Elves, i'll have two. One with a nightmare doll, and one with a vexanthrope. My archon also has a Crucible of Malediction. These are the most psychic items availble i think. They maynot be psykers, but i still want to try and master the dark arts.
Other than that, scissor hands, destructor supporting a raider squad with blaster, splinter rifle and sybarite with agoniser. Should be pretty cool.