How is DE played where you play? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 36
  1. #1
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    SJ Bay Area
    Posts
    1,582
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    225 (x6)

    How is DE played where you play?

    The other thread got me thinking (yes, it hurts) and I am now curious on how your store plays the DE. I will cite the vague DE problems and tell me how your store plays it.

    Here is how we play it at my store:

    WWP deploying - I cant move but everyone can fire except the Sybarite when its time to deploy the wwp.

    Rolling for reserves in the portal - my store says I dont start rolling for reserves until the portal is open (so I dont get to start rolling in the 2nd turn). Grrrr!(

    Wych weapons - When the wyches strike the enemy gets their full WS but when they strike the wyches their WS is halved accordingly.

    Reaver Jetbikes - I do get the 6" jump in the assault phase if I dont assault.

    Plasma grenades - plasma only works on models that have purchased them. Yes, that means Lelith doesnt get to strike first if charging into cover.:cry:

    Horrorfexs - I get to fire it "in addition to" the other guns.

    Crucible of Malediction - it works on Synapse creatures

    Goblet of Spite - it works on vehicals

    Destructor AP - I roll for each model that was wounded (4 wounds = 4 AP rolls).

    If you can add any other "confusing" rulings please add them but I am curious how you guys play yours.


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Son of LO Tenozuma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,768
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    198 (x7)

    WWP deploying - I cant move but everyone can fire except the Sybarite when its time to deploy the wwp.
    I've played it that I can't move and nobody can shoot, but I can assault... but come to think of it, your way makes more sense by the rules, I sense a change coming along...

    Rolling for reserves in the portal - my store says I dont start rolling for reserves until the portal is open (so I dont get to start rolling in the 2nd turn). Grrrr!
    I play it the other way but always feel guilty when I do, I'm not sure about it.

    Wych weapons - When the wyches strike the enemy gets their full WS but when they strike the wyches their WS is halved accordingly.

    Rules as intended are that they work both ways fullstop. Rules as written are that they wor both ways only if another dark eldar squad (say warriors) is in the combat, I play the latter, you're short changing yourself for no reason by playing neither, there is no reason not to, get your rules judging person to actually check the rules in the FAQ.

    Reaver Jetbikes - I do get the 6" jump in the assault phase if I dont assault.
    Me also, as written in the wargear book, plus all fluff and common sense.

    Plasma grenades - plasma only works on models that have purchased them. Yes, that means Lelith doesnt get to strike first if charging into cover.
    I buy plasma grenades for the whole wych squad so it's not an issue, that's how it's intended to be so that's how I play it, however, by the rules, only the succubus needs grenades then the whole enemy squad loses their i10 and you strike in I order... this doesn't work the same with frag grenades.

    Horrorfexs - I get to fire it "in addition to" the other guns.
    I don't, because that's against the rules.

    Crucible of Malediction - it works on Synapse creatures
    Yes, of course it does.

    Goblet of Spite - it works on vehicals
    Yes, of course it does.

    Destructor AP - I roll for each model that was wounded (4 wounds = 4 AP rolls).
    Usually forced to do it this way even though it's really wrong since you target squads, not individual models, unless you're a vindicare assassin but even then you're targetting the squad and picking a casualty really...

    I might add some more later but those are my answers to those ones.
    Cheers.
    Last edited by Tenozuma; May 18th, 2007 at 09:50.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
    Teno, you are so godlike I almost creamed my pants!
    Tenozuma - The Burninator... I came, I saw, I posted.
    Dark Eldar player.

    Feel free to PM if you want any advice or help with anything.
    Assume everything I say has a "what I think" disclaimer.

    Hang out with all the other Aussie and NZ members at The ANZAC Clan.
    Need advice, want to talk warhammer or just want a laugh? Come on LO Chat. http://www.librarium-chat.com/


  4. #3
    Senior Member dizzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Ireland
    Age
    35
    Posts
    724
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    54 (x2)

    Don't have a store close to us, closest is belfast which is miles away, nor did i play at it when i lived close to it. Personality clash with redshirts. One of the things i hated most was being leaped at everytime i entered the store to buy something. Very irritating.

    We have a large number of intelligent people who play at our local club. That give better answers than our not so local store :yes:



    WWP deploying - I cant move but everyone can fire except the Sybarite when its time to deploy the wwp.

    Rolling for reserves in the portal - roll for reserves when available to play. I.E. when portal is open, your dice roll gets greater as normal.

    Wych weapons - any enemy engaged whether striking or being striked at loses half WS and extra hth weapon. (seems we interpreted it differently, must look at the rule again)

    Reaver Jetbikes - 6" jump in the assault phase if I dont assault.

    Plasma grenades - plasma only works on models that have purchased them.

    Horrorfexs - I get to fire it "in addition to" the other guns. since recently yes.

    Crucible of Malediction - it works on Synapse creatures, this is new to me i have never attempted to do this, i like the idea though.

    Goblet of Spite - it works on vehicals, yup

    Destructor AP - I roll for each model that was wounded (4 wounds = 4 AP rolls). exactly the same, however i would rather have it this way, theres more chance of kills. rolling AP 5 or 6 sucks.

    *can't think of anything else at mo, i'm sure i will though before my work day is out*
    Last edited by dizzie; May 18th, 2007 at 10:11.

  5. #4
    Member Redtwin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Age
    37
    Posts
    183
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    12 (x1)

    I have good news and I have bad news...

    First, the good.

    The WWP rules explicitly state the model carrying the WWP cannot move or shoot. The rest of the unit can still shoot, but cannot move as doing so means the entire unit is considered to have moved. So the sybarite can't shoot and everyone else can. You still can't assault with the unit, however, as the assault rules specifically use the work "move" when resolving charges.

    Also, from the WWP rules on page 15, you may keep units in reserve specifically to emerge from the portal, and they do not emerge until a portal is available even if they have already become available. As such, you roll for reserves as normal from turn 2 onwards, but can't place available models until a WWP is on the table. Well, unless you used them as normal reserves, of course.

    Now for the bad:

    DE jetbikes are not of the eldar jetbike unit type. I think the confusion here stems from confusing "eldar jetbike" as "jetbike with an eldar on top of it" when it's actually a unit type like infantry or beasts. This is explicitly listed on the table of existing unit types list in the core rulebook. DE jetbikes are listed as jetbikes, while eldar jetbikes are listed as, well, eldar jetbikes. Thus reavers cannot move instead of assaulting. I disagree with this from a consistency standpoint, but that's what the rules state.
    Dark Eldar: Showing the Chaos gods how to do evil properly since 1998.

    Borrowed DH Combat Patrol 1W/0D/0L
    Dark Eldar 1W/0D/3L (partially assembled)
    Necron 1W/0D/0L (I got my 'Crons back!)

    Moo is my new personal hero. Click Undefeated Dark Eldar and DE? Good you say? to learn why.

  6. #5
    Senior Member dizzie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Ireland
    Age
    35
    Posts
    724
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    54 (x2)

    brilliant that made me laugh....:yes:

    yes we are quite aware of all the arguments with some of the points you just raised.
    the point of this forum is how you play at your store or in my case club. we know the arguments for and against.
    not everyone interprets the rules the same especially with DE.
    some rules are sketchy at best.
    we simply took the most talked about differently interpreted rules to see how each DE player is playing. don't mean to sound rude

    your input was still welcomed though, we would just rather not have an open discussion about the different rules that have been raised, instead list the rules and tell us how you play, cheers.

    or if you wish to add more to the list thats fine too.

  7. #6
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    270
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    17 (x1)

    My club plays almost exactly as yours does Kwi. We have talked out all of these things and a couple more.

    WWP deploying - I cant move but everyone can fire except the Sybarite when its time to deploy the wwp.
    Played the same

    Rolling for reserves in the portal - my store says I dont start rolling for reserves until the portal is open (so I dont get to start rolling in the 2nd turn). Grrrr!
    Played that you still have to roll if not deployed at my club. In my last major tourney(Adepticon) they ruled just the opposite. You don't roll until its deployed.

    Wych weapons - When the wyches strike the enemy gets their full WS but when they strike the wyches their WS is halved accordingly.

    Played the same

    Reaver Jetbikes - I do get the 6" jump in the assault phase if I dont assault.
    Played the same. The wargear book is an official listing so it stands. Like it or not, GW says the listings are the latest and they say the reaver is an elder jetbike.

    Plasma grenades - plasma only works on models that have purchased them. Yes, that means Lelith doesnt get to strike first if charging into cover.
    Played the same. She doesn't get nonlisted wargear nor does she get the wych dodge.

    Horrorfexs - I get to fire it "in addition to" the other guns.
    Played the same.

    Crucible of Malediction - it works on Synapse creatures

    Played the same

    Goblet of Spite - it works on vehicals
    Played the same

    Destructor AP - I roll for each model that was wounded (4 wounds = 4 AP rolls).
    Played the same. Each model wounded gets rolled one at a time.

    If you can add any other "confusing" rulings please add them but I am curious how you guys play yours.


    If the mission has reserves in it and you have WWP's, do the units in resrve have to use the WWP?
    We have debated this one but decided that as the FAQ tells you to think of the portal edge like a table edge and that the rule seems to be split into two sections with the "may" part being prevalent, the player can choose to use the table edge. The big decider was that there is no wording which states the units are in some sort of transporter beam but more like waiting on the iother side of a door. If the portal isn't open, they just decide to enter from the main table edge vice the further forward table edge. Good or bad, thats how we decided trying to use the RAW.

    Can the portal be surrounded by a single model (land raider on the portal) and does it block skimmers.
    We determined that for ground forces it blocks but for skimmers it doesn't block.

    On a side note at adepticon, a chaos spawn forge world model was able to block it and the judge ruled that skimmers were also blocked. Even though the judge said that if the enemy placed units all along the table edge, a skimmer could come into play and not be blocked. Go figure

    All of these problems is why my DE are in tourney retirement until they either rewrite the faq or the dex comes out. It gets frustrating having to worry about which way someone will end up ruling. Even if they rule in your favor, you end up losing because of time limits. A 15 minute debate in a tourney can make the difference between getting another turn finished. With an assaulty Cult army, any stalling can really hurt.

  8. #7
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    SJ Bay Area
    Posts
    1,582
    Mentioned
    3 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    225 (x6)

    Yes, I was only wanting to know how you play at your store - not what we think personally of how the rules should be played.

    Quote Originally Posted by Redant View Post
    If the mission has reserves in it and you have WWP's, do the units in resrve have to use the WWP?
    I only had this problem once where my opponent said that if the portal isnt open then they have to come out from the deployment zone as per normal reserves rule (of course he was Tau and completely hidden and wanted my raiders to move from the back board edge). He thought he was doing me a favor - but usually the last sentence under the WWP description in the codex is enough to convince people.

    Can the portal be surrounded by a single model (land raider on the portal) and does it block skimmers.
    We play it as if I dont have an inch of the portal open then my units cannot enter the board since they cant start their turn within 1" of an enemy unit - this goes for all units on foot and skimmers.

    A 15 minute debate in a tourney can make the difference between getting another turn finished. With an assaulty Cult army, any stalling can really hurt.
    This is so true, for me, if I dont get the full 6 turns in I am usually not in a position to win. 3rd turn is when my army gets into full swing and I usually need at least 2 more turns to "finish" my opponent. So far, the few tournaments I have been in the game has never lasted 6 turns (usually 3 or 4).

  9. #8
    Son of LO Tenozuma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,768
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    198 (x7)

    I wouldn't even be so sure that you CAN put models on top of the webway portal, I mean, you can surround it (which isn't specific so it just means that if you can put a model not within 1" of an enemy then you are not surrounded). I mean, the portal isn't a piece of the table, if the edges are a piece of your board edge then the middle is off the table so they can't go on it (they can't go on it) or a model of yours (they can't go on it)... Also, if you're one of those people who actually model their WWP's in 3D, then they certainly can't put something on top of it as it wouldn't stay on. As far as I can see they can surround it but not park vehicles on top of it. Also, it never even specifies a height, it could be 6 feet tall and then you wouldn't be too keen on putting a vehicle on it would you? Watch this space for more arguements in this regard.

    and Redtwin. They ARE eldar jetbikes, read the wargear book, use common sense and THEN tell me it is not true.

    oh and
    If the mission has reserves in it and you have WWP's, do the units in resrve have to use the WWP?

    "[if you've deployed the portal] troops may only enter through the webway]
    "units entering play as reserves MAY be placed on the portal template instead of entering on the table edge"

    If those 2 quotes don't say it all, what does? How can you argue against rulings so specific? If you've deployed the portal they can only come through there, if you havn't they can come on as normal reserves, very, very simple. You can't argue with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
    Teno, you are so godlike I almost creamed my pants!
    Tenozuma - The Burninator... I came, I saw, I posted.
    Dark Eldar player.

    Feel free to PM if you want any advice or help with anything.
    Assume everything I say has a "what I think" disclaimer.

    Hang out with all the other Aussie and NZ members at The ANZAC Clan.
    Need advice, want to talk warhammer or just want a laugh? Come on LO Chat. http://www.librarium-chat.com/


  10. #9
    Born from Tears of Angels WraithGuardian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    AUC School of Medicine
    Age
    28
    Posts
    1,768
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    105 (x5)

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenozuma View Post
    I wouldn't even be so sure that you CAN put models on top of the webway portal, I mean, you can surround it (which isn't specific so it just means that if you can put a model not within 1" of an enemy then you are not surrounded). I mean, the portal isn't a piece of the table, if the edges are a piece of your board edge then the middle is off the table so they can't go on it (they can't go on it) or a model of yours (they can't go on it)... Also, if you're one of those people who actually model their WWP's in 3D, then they certainly can't put something on top of it as it wouldn't stay on. As far as I can see they can surround it but not park vehicles on top of it. Also, it never even specifies a height, it could be 6 feet tall and then you wouldn't be too keen on putting a vehicle on it would you? Watch this space for more arguements in this regard.
    In the new codex update, it says word to word how a WWP is used. Right now I am not lazy so I will type it out for you...
    "The following is a simple way to understand how the web way portal is used: What the WWP is in position, it acts as a gate through which your reserves enter the table. Think of the enge of the WWP as a small piece of your table edge. Model move onto table from the portal marker, measuring from its edge as they would if they entered the tabe normaly. The normal rules regarding enemy in proximity apply, notably that you cant come within 1" of an enemy model surrounding the portal, then you cant use it to table edge. Units may not partialy enter play using WWP, not may they charge through it-these are still considered held in reserve, and may enter play next turn if they follow the above criteria."

    There is only one way to understand this, so you can go and tell your store owner - "In your face". Point is, you never put them on a table to begin with. In your movement phase you measure from the edge of WWP how far a unit can move and a the desired measurement you place the unit down for the first time. The units arent on the board until you measured how far you want each to move and place it down on a table.
    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag View Post
    WWP deploying - I cant move but everyone can fire except the Sybarite when its time to deploy the wwp.
    No, it can be either deployed instead of moving OR shooting so I always do it instead of shooting that way you get 6" move instead of d6 fleet or a shot. I am not sure where this whole not moving thing comes from, you can either skip moving or shooting.

    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag View Post
    Rolling for reserves in the portal - my store says I dont start rolling for reserves until the portal is open (so I dont get to start rolling in the 2nd turn). Grrrr!(
    Thats BS, you start rolling on turn after WWP deployment to so go tell your store owner he is an idiot. If oyu deploy on turn one then you roll on turn 2 on a 4+. If you deploy on turn two then you roll 3+ on turn 3.

    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag View Post
    Wych weapons - When the wyches strike the enemy gets their full WS but when they strike the wyches their WS is halved accordingly.
    This is actualy correct but my store lets me half their WS during attacking too, no complains there for me even though I think they actualy let me cheat a little bit...

    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag View Post
    Reaver Jetbikes - I do get the 6" jump in the assault phase if I dont assault.
    Dont realy understand what that means, can u rephrase that?

    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag View Post
    Plasma grenades - plasma only works on models that have purchased them. Yes, that means Lelith doesnt get to strike first if charging into cover.:cry:
    She doesnt have plasma grenades to begin with, and cant be given them so dont really see what the confusion is about. If she join a retinue and you pick always strike first, then the model strike at the same time as those in cover, but lelith still strike last since she doesnt have neither drugs nor grenades

    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag View Post
    Horrorfexs - I get to fire it "in addition to" the other guns.
    Follows same rules as a defensive weapon, in the main rule book.

    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag View Post
    Crucible of Malediction - it works on Synapse creatures
    No confusion there

    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag View Post
    Goblet of Spite - it works on vehicals
    Yes, EVERYTHING in BtB

    Quote Originally Posted by KwiKwag View Post
    Destructor AP - I roll for each model that was wounded (4 wounds = 4 AP rolls).
    No, you roll for the overall template shot because you arent targeting 10 models with 10 shots, you are targeting 10 models with one shot so there is only one Ap roll which can be both good and bad depending on what you get in respect to what you need. However I guess there is room for argument...



    P.S Employees in you store are wrong in many aspect, dont let them tell you what to do UNLESS they can proove it in which case they cant since you know your army better than they do.
    Last edited by WraithGuardian; May 19th, 2007 at 05:04.

  11. #10
    Son of LO Tenozuma's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    2,768
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    198 (x7)

    You seem to have a misunderstanding with the wych weapons, you play it the way the codex says, this is good so far but you aren't claiming all the benefits you could. Then after the FAQ came along which a lot of people misinterpreted.

    The faq does NOT make it so that wych weapons just worth both ways (good that you don't play it both ways). It does IMPLY that it works both ways all the time but an implication isn't enough to go by, all it specifically mentions is the specific situation where another dark eldar unit is in the combat, THEN the opponents weapon skill is halved both in attack AND defence. Meaning if you have a wych squad and a warrior squad against a tac squad, the wyches half the tac squads weapon squad even when the wyches themselves are attacking (but not for the warriors). I believe the intention of the FAQ was to make it work both ways full stop but there is no proving this so I'm going by the rules. Going just by the codex is honourable but not how it's actually meant to be played now.

    Playing horrofexes like that is just plain wrong as well, no 2 ways about it by the rules. It never refutes the rules in the codex, the newest rules to take priority but it never contradicts the old ones so the old ones stay in effect as well.
    Last edited by Tenozuma; May 19th, 2007 at 09:10.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
    Teno, you are so godlike I almost creamed my pants!
    Tenozuma - The Burninator... I came, I saw, I posted.
    Dark Eldar player.

    Feel free to PM if you want any advice or help with anything.
    Assume everything I say has a "what I think" disclaimer.

    Hang out with all the other Aussie and NZ members at The ANZAC Clan.
    Need advice, want to talk warhammer or just want a laugh? Come on LO Chat. http://www.librarium-chat.com/


+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts