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Thread: Eldar vs Tau

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    Eldar vs Tau

    What eldar units are a must against tau?

    I will be facing probably 2 hammerheads, 2 devilfish, alot of battlesuits some stealth warriors and abot 20 fire warriors.

    Help


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    I'd suggest trying some shining spears with a jetbike farseer.

    Tactics:

    Have farseer cast fortune on them and have them turbo boost. Farseer can follow with regular 18" movement, and can't be targeted. If you do it right the farseer can even rejoin the unit at the end of the farseers movement if you're worried about pie plates.

    The spears will probably have some cover and with a 3+ invulnerable with re-roll should fair pretty well.

    On the next turn fortune and move again, linking in the farseer, and charge into some expensive suits. Preferably charging multiple units at once and/or having a "pseudopod" of jetbikes sticking out towards another unit. You'll want to be very familiar with how to get the most out of the "moving into melee" rules here.

    You objective with these guys is to wrap up as much of the Tau as you can and inflict nasty casualties on your charges all over their battle line. (after moving out with hit and run you're looking at an effective 3d6+18 charge distance it's hard to keep away from that).

    Note that these guys are at least respectable against rear armor if it comes up as regular spears have a s6 shot, exarc a s8 and farseer a s9(with spear), plus a chance of something on a charge. But not ending your turn wrapped up in CC or with a turbo boost leaves them vulnerable to shots that beat their armor. So be careful with that.

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    Member spictacular's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gavxscouse View Post
    What eldar units are a must against tau?

    I will be facing probably 2 hammerheads, 2 devilfish, alot of battlesuits some stealth warriors and abot 20 fire warriors.

    Help
    I play tau as well as Eldar and think that a battlesuit heavy army is one of my favorite things to see across the field. Eldar missle launchers. Krak means instakill vs. Crisis suits even the commander while Plasma missles will take care of any fire warriors. How you carry the missile launchers is up to you, but I'd use War Walkers and Serpents. The Walkers can stay out of battlesuit range long enough to take even a stacked squad out before fire is returned. I'd also consider Fire Dragons in a Serpent the Exarch won't be necessary. With Railheads flying about, I would steer clear of Fire Prisms and Falcons as one shot from the Railgun sends them packing, while it will take a few shots to take out a War Walker squadron or Wraithlord.

    Remember CC squads are a tempting choice but they draw massed fire. The Eldar vs Tau gunfight can go either way the winner is the side that chooses the proper targets.

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    Senior Member $ick's Avatar
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    It's a common misconception that tau are 'the' shootiest army in 40k. Ther're not, they are just the most mobile shootiest. If you can get enough of your guns in range then you will easily give them a run for their money.

    Use jetbikes to tie up their battlesuites - first turn turbo boost they assault next go.

    Use falcons to get stuck in to their lines and rear armour.

    Use walkers for massed ranged firepower.

    Mobile Dragons are allways good for commanders, crisis and broadsides.

    I think if you can knock out their heavies first of all cleaning up the fire warriors should be easy.

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    Senior Member dymew's Avatar
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    I'd like to point out that a falcon or prism with holofields isn't that bad of an idea to take against tau. The pieplate from the prism is very good at taking out massed firewarriors and the falcon can output a high number of AP2 shots.

    Any glancing shot against a falcon has a 1 in 9 chance of bringing it down, or 1 in 36 if you take vectored engines. So falcons and prisms are very resilient against railgun fire.

    Other than that, I agree with what's been said above. S8 weapons for the suits, turboboost to tie up his stuff.
    Dreams give us a vision of a world unlike any we have seen. They present us with a glimpse of a better life; a goal to aspire to, and in the face of insurmountable odds, they provide us with the power to overcome, to live on, and to succeed where we would have otherwise failed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dymew View Post
    I'd like to point out that a falcon or prism with holofields isn't that bad of an idea to take against tau. The pieplate from the prism is very good at taking out massed firewarriors and the falcon can output a high number of AP2 shots.

    Any glancing shot against a falcon has a 1 in 9 chance of bringing it down, or 1 in 36 if you take vectored engines. So falcons and prisms are very resilient against railgun fire.
    I do appeciate the resilliency of the Falcon and Fire Prism once the H-Fields and Vec Engines are factored in, but I think you fail to see the bigger picture here.

    The threat isn't just the Railheads, it's just the most obvious. As a Tau Commander myself I know that those battlesuits are probably going to be packing Missile Pods and from the low numbers of Fire Warriors/Devilfish and Railheads(a total of 700-800pts), that means a lot of poinst left over for battlesuits, in a 1500-2000 pt game.

    The Railheads are sitting in the backfield with all the range in the world to work with. The battlesuits are going to be closer as their average weapon range is 18" to 24". At best with the Missle Pod and the Jet Pack jump that means they can threaten AV 12 tanks within 42".

    The Falcon is putting out 2 shots at AP2 per turn that are beyond that range. Otherwise it has to come closer. Add starcannon shots and at best you've taken out 2 battlesuits. A one in 9 chance of going down to the one Railgun shot, yes, but what about the 6-27 Str 7 shots that are now in range? Not looking so hot for the Falcon.

    My point being that Missile Launcher toting War Walkers are a better choice because they can threaten the suits and still be well out of range for at least two shooting phases. I admit that the Fire Prism could stay out of trouble as well with it's main weapon range and speed, not to mention that its more cost effective and spells doom for battlesuits as well as Fire Warriors. But I think the Falcon would be a bad call.

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    Ah the Tau. Some GW marketroid told people that the Tau are the shootiest, most mobile, army in 40k....

    Here's the thing - Tau have great range. They have an excellent tank. The battlesuits are just fun. But Jump-Shoot-Jump does not an army make. Eldar tanks are faster, for fire volume Dire Avengers beat Fire Warriors, and jet bikes are even more mobile than battlesuits.

    Shining Spears are battlesuit killers - Sunnyside's tactic is just one excellent way to use them. They are very mobile, and dish out the high strength, armor ignoring attacks. They can also hunt Devilfish with a surprising degree of effect - just remember to give the Exarch the starlance.

    Reapers can out duel fire warriors - I know the warriors don't seem like the biggest threat, but they can do surprising amounts of damage. Reapers can also kill Kroot fairly well - twin plasma blasts. That's more for static lists. They can pin down suits though - JSJ is less fun if it moves from a tactic to 'I have to stay behind this one terrain piece because I will die the second I end the turn in the open'

    Prisms. 'nough said. The real theme of Eldar vs. Tau is 'Anything you can do I can do better.' He has Raiheads. Scary. But you can pieplate an entire squad of suits. Use that.

    Scropians with The Claw. These are my favorites anyway, but they will kill.... just about anything in the Tau list. And a Wave Serpent will get them where they need to go.

    Dire Avengers - you know how to use these boys. Serpents, or terrain hugging. you can out shoot, and then out-fight, firewarriors, as long as you get close. Use terrain grasshopper.

    Fear Stealthsuits. If they are not handled, they can cut up Eldar like nothing else. Like Harlequins, they are hard to shoot. Unlike harlequins, they have an assault phase move and big, evil cannons.

    And now for the ritual LO question - give us an idea of your usual list, and we will give you much better help.

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    First and foremost, avoid guardians at all cost, since these die in droves against the pulse rifles of the Tau. Generally speaking you need mobility and low AP to deal with suits.

    I find a unit of fire dragons i a falcon is never more useful than against Tau. The squad can smoke a unit of suits while the falcon toasts a broadside the same turn.

    Dark Reapers and Pathfinders are also very good, but likely to die fast if exposed to enemy fire. A small squad of each should be good though, say 3man and 5-man respectively.

    For troops I´d go Dire Avengers. These together with bladestorm can take out a unit of stealth suits with some luck, and definitely the normal tau troops.

    A wraithlord or two vypers with bright lances are good for taking out hammerheads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Avenger View Post
    First and foremost, avoid guardians at all cost, since these die in droves against the pulse rifles of the Tau.
    Avoid Guardians? Don't you mean avoid using Guardians poorly?
    Point for point Guardian Defenders vs. Tau Fire Warriors is a fight easily taken by the Guardians. Fire Warriors need to be within 30" in order to threaten the Guardians. The Guardians on the other hand need to be within 48". Plasma Missiles will grind Fire Warriors into the dirt. Especially if there is no Shas'ui(team leader).
    Mount the Fire Warriors in a Devilfish? Well mount the Guardians in a Wave Serpent. Again the Serpent will win that fight and once they pull themselves out of the inevitable wreckage, there is nothing the Fire Warriors can do to stop the Serpent.
    Sure there are the Crisis suits and Railheads to worry about, but if the Tau player wants to take out Guardians and not worry about the Fire Prisms, War Walkers, and Wraithlords, then woe to him/her.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Avenger View Post
    I find a unit of fire dragons i a falcon is never more useful than against Tau. The squad can smoke a unit of suits while the falcon toasts a broadside the same turn.
    I'd put them in a Wave Serpent. Just as mobile, but you don't have to get your Falcon within the threat range of the battle suits.
    For less point you can have 10 Fire Dragons in a Serpent than it would cost to get 6 into a Falcon.
    I've already stated why the Falcon isn't the best choice against Tau, but then using it try and get Fire Dragons into the fight and now you're just giving the enemy a better chance at taking down a very expensive tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Avenger View Post
    For troops I´d go Dire Avengers. These together with bladestorm can take out a unit of stealth suits with some luck...
    Dire Avengers are a great Troops choice, but this is a foolish fight. The units both have the same threat range on their weapon, but the Stealth suits can add that all important 6" to their range with the Jet Pack.
    These units have about the same hitting power in the shooting phase, but the Stealths have better saves and the Dire Avengers will be hard pressed to run them down and get into assault where the Exarch can tip the scales.
    Anytime you think to yourself "this unit will beat that unit with a little luck", then you are risking more than you need to and not matching your units up to theirs properly.

    Don't depend on fate, she is a cruel mistress.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dire Avenger View Post
    ...two vypers with bright lances are good for taking out hammerheads.
    Avoid taking one shot heavy weapons on Vypers. This advice you will find all over this forum. As for this match up, again this isn't a smart fight.
    Vypers going toe to toe with a Hammerhead?
    The Hammerhead has better BS and is very likely to take out a Vyper.
    Plus the once the Vypers are in range to shoot at the Hammerhead then they are likely in the range of everything else in the Tau arsenal.
    Save the Vypers for anti-infantry. That is what they are best at.

    Also there is no need to take Bright Lances on anything that can get side or rear shots on enemy vehicles.
    Most side armor values are under 13, so the Lance ability is wasted and so are the points. Bright Lances should stick to units that are less nimble such as weapon platforms or War Walkers.
    Bright Lances on Wave Serpents work well as they are twin-linked.

    I hope none of this sounded too cruel. It is a lot easier to critique someone else's tactics than it is your own. I'm certain there are more veteran players that would find fault with what I've stated here.:yes:

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    Senior Member KhlauKolash's Avatar
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    the above post seems to sum it up nicely. curious, though, how do Harlies stack up against Tau?

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