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  1. #1
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    DE vs Marines (esp. terminators) what to use?

    So, I currently play a Dark angels army myself, a friend of mine who recently picked up 40k does too. I'm pretty much bored with a Marine vs Marine game and I wanted to pick up a DE army last year anyway. Got 40 somewhat DE warriors lying around here waiting to get painted. Anyway;

    From what I've read, Wyches in raiders work wonders. Thus actually I'm tending to start up a Wych cult. Wyches look more interesting then normal DE warriors.

    So basically, my question somewhat is, do Wyches also work wonders against terminators? Or... what else? I understand sniper squads can do a thing or two on terminators (2+ save, 5+ invulnerable)

    Another thing, slightly off-topic but DE related. Would you consider it cheese if I'd take Deep striking units only (Raiders with Screaming jets) and deepstrike em in my, and also the last turn in the game, so I can assault, making my opponent lose pretty much a couple of units more due to assaulting wyches? Thus rendering his previous 5 turns worthless. I mean, say I deepstrike everything succesful and I assault a 5 man marine squad with 10 wyches. And, say I massacre the entire squad. I would pretty much score more Victory points then him. Doesn't work in Take and hold scenario's though. But I guess it would work in Seek and destroy. Am I overlooking anything rules related here? Is roling for reserves/deepstriking mandatory each turn? Or could I waive it and choose to deepstrike in my 6th turn? And also, can I deepstrike, move 12' with my raider, disembark, fleet and assault?


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  3. #2
    Senior Member necronoob's Avatar
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    Wyches can be very good against termis, or chaos or imperial because the power weapons that ignore army are usless and the number of attacks and the succubus with the agoniser. Also blasters are great against termis.
    Prey they don't take you alive

  4. #3
    Dark Eldar Zealot Wicky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chaoschrist View Post
    So, I currently play a Dark angels army myself, a friend of mine who recently picked up 40k does too. I'm pretty much bored with a Marine vs Marine game and I wanted to pick up a DE army last year anyway. Got 40 somewhat DE warriors lying around here waiting to get painted. Anyway;

    From what I've read, Wyches in raiders work wonders. Thus actually I'm tending to start up a Wych cult. Wyches look more interesting then normal DE warriors.

    So basically, my question somewhat is, do Wyches also work wonders against terminators? Or... what else? I understand sniper squads can do a thing or two on terminators (2+ save, 5+ invulnerable)

    Another thing, slightly off-topic but DE related. Would you consider it cheese if I'd take Deep striking units only (Raiders with Screaming jets) and deepstrike em in my, and also the last turn in the game, so I can assault, making my opponent lose pretty much a couple of units more due to assaulting wyches? Thus rendering his previous 5 turns worthless. I mean, say I deepstrike everything succesful and I assault a 5 man marine squad with 10 wyches. And, say I massacre the entire squad. I would pretty much score more Victory points then him. Doesn't work in Take and hold scenario's though. But I guess it would work in Seek and destroy. Am I overlooking anything rules related here? Is roling for reserves/deepstriking mandatory each turn? Or could I waive it and choose to deepstrike in my 6th turn? And also, can I deepstrike, move 12' with my raider, disembark, fleet and assault?
    Hi.
    Wyches are a good choice against Terminators and Wyches with Agonisers are even better.
    The reserves can not be held back and must come on the turn they are rolled for.
    Cheers.
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  5. #4
    Senior Member dizzie's Avatar
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    wyches and warriors are very cheap thats why u always have a seargent with a power weapon.
    power weapon being comprised of either argoniser, punisher or a power weapon on a bike succubus.
    DE are very cheap points wise. although they are very fragile and amazingly CC orientated as you seemed to have noticed. they are a very shooty army too, with lances, disintegrators splinter cannons and blasters at their disposal.
    As for termintaors if you give your succubus an agoniser and s.p. you will have 4 attacks on the charge, count in the rest of your squad's attacks(lets say its a squad of that gives 24 str 3 attacks. all these attacks hit on a 3+. You also get first attack due to your high Initiative, basically to sum this up if u get unlucky and don't break and kill him in first round he got extremely lucky when its a 5 man squad.

    Warriors are alot better than you think, they are cheap, they make great sniper squads (2 darklances) footslogging squads and raider squads.
    warriors are the backbone of DE, do not underestimate them. they have valuable WS BS and Initiative stats, which means alot for such a cheap unit choice. Armed correctly and supported well, warriors can be quite devastating. with their weapon upgrades and seargent power weapon upgrade(this is a must) they have the versatility to take out a tank with blasters, kill rank and file with S.C. and blasters and be CC effective with a sergeant with either punisher & tormenter helm or just plain old agonisers. even when charged these guys almost always strike first or simultaneously
    theres not too many squads in the 40k universe that can be that dependable at such a cheap untit squad price.

    wyches are still great though

    Edit: if you really wanna just kill marines you can take as many ravager and raider upgrades with disintegrator as you can, this isn't exactly fair for him. not how DE should be played, but still notable.
    Last edited by dizzie; May 30th, 2007 at 04:31.
    If you're always worried about crushing the ants beneath you...you won't be able to walk.

  6. #5
    Son of LO Tenozuma's Avatar
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    Incubi. The amount of times they've carved straight through terminators is unbelievable! Wyches have problems getting though that thick armour, when you've only got 4 or so power weapon attacks that wound on 4's and they still get an invulnerable save... well... wyches don't really cut it, bring in the big guns.

    3 incubi kill 2 termies on the charge on average (or 3 regular marines) the dracon should also get 1 or so if you don't give him any silly upgrades. like drugs or indeed anything but a weapon. So 6 incubi kills 4 termies (6 marines.) it's perfect, straight through them and no need for waiting for them to fail those 2+ saves. And termies are the sort of squad that could very well cost more points that your squad so it's not a huge deal if you happen to wipe straight through them (but that won't happen that often, just try take the front ones out of b2b if possible and you won't get smushed.)

    Ravagers with disintegrators are always a good bet against marines, some like the talos but I'm not one of those some. Warriors are always good against everything, whether it be with blasters, lances or an agonsier they beat marines left right and center. Wyches are good against stuff like assault marines but you'd need huge volumes of them to take on termies effectively, and who has that many wyches in a battle? Not even a wych cult could spare that many considering all the different targets the marine player would have...

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
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  7. #6
    Archite of Caerbannog KwiKwag's Avatar
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    I actually wring my hands and get excited when I see terminators - I think its because that 200 points my opponent thinks will "pwn" me with and he tries to get them into the battle fast. Sure, if they get first shot then their firepower is to be feared most. Their main weakness is how expensive they are and the number of them in a unit - just swarm them in cc.

    I agree with Teno with the incubi - hot knife through butter. Wyches work too and since I mostly play Wych Cult I have absolutely no problems with running a squad of wyches into terminators. Termies strike last no matter what and the wyches can usually score another "death-by-armor save" (not to mention being able to dodge 50% of the powerfists).

    My last game however was a Coven and my lone Haemy on drugs killed 3 terminators with his destructor when I rolled 3 "2's" for AP - absolutely priceless. I did manage to kill the 4th termie with poison blades but I have to admit it was a long shot he'd roll a "1" (and he did).

    Ravagers just makes them an embarassment - you would have to get first shot on them because if you miss or expose yourself too soon they will shoot you down fast. Darklances and disintegrators at full power would be recommended.

  8. #7
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    9 Wyches + Succubus with Agoniser on the charge:

    9 Wyches: 27 attacks, 1/2 hit (depending on how you use Wych Weapons, this is going with them only working when you're attaccked), 1/3 wound, 1/6 fail save. So this lot kills 27/36s of a terminator (ie most likely 1, but it's not a sure thing).

    1 Succubus: 4 attacks, 1/2 hit, 1/2 wound, 2/3 fail invulnerable save. 2/3 of a kill.

    All up, the Wyches, on average, kill roughly 1.5 Terminators. Hardly ripping through them. Wyches are GREAT at holding nasties up, and the Termies will find it tough hurting these ladies as much as they should (given both their points costs). But if you want to rip through them, look to Incubi and Disintegrators.

  9. #8
    Member SyNidus's Avatar
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    Ravagers are absolutely gold when it comes to killing termies...3 Disintegrators fired at maximum setting, and thats alot of fried termies :yes:

    Conversely, you can try a unit that i like to call the SyNide Pattern :ninja::shifty:

    Drachite
    Punisher
    Tormentor Helm
    Combat Drugs
    Plasma Grenades
    Retinue:
    4 Wyches-WW
    1 Succubus-WW, Punisher, T.Helm
    Raider-Dl, H.Fex
    -250

    Seriously, wiped out a squad of 9 Emperor's Children Terminators :w00t: and the best part is that you can always have it. Whether you play Kabal or Cult, you can always have this unit in. Seriously alot of power packed into one unit, but i've found this very useful.

  10. #9
    Son of LO Tenozuma's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyNidus View Post
    and the best part is that you can always have it. Whether you play Kabal or Cult, you can always have this unit in.
    Very, very debatable. "If your army is led by a wych lord" or words to that effect... define "led". I could easily define "led" as "being an HQ choice", HQ's "lead" the army. Or it could be the guy with the highest leadership or who costs the most points, but I'd say the most believable one and their intention was that HQ choice = lead and therefore you can't do this in a kabal because it becomes a wych cult be being "led" or at least "co-led" by a wych lord.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bogan
    Teno, you are so godlike I almost creamed my pants!
    Tenozuma - The Burninator... I came, I saw, I posted.
    Dark Eldar player.

    Feel free to PM if you want any advice or help with anything.
    Assume everything I say has a "what I think" disclaimer.

    Hang out with all the other Aussie and NZ members at The ANZAC Clan.
    Need advice, want to talk warhammer or just want a laugh? Come on LO Chat. http://www.librarium-chat.com/


  11. #10
    Dark Eldar Gerbil Splata's Avatar
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    this isn't exactly the place for it, but i still believe oyu can designate who leads your army. my haemonoculus leads my army forever!!!

    do you oppose? you will die to my destructor of doom!!! (or perhaps my auto-woudning stinger)

    haemonoculus' with destructors are cool at killing termi's just roll to wound and roll an ap... 1/3 of the time, sludge! hit 3 termi's (not hard, should hit more) and he just paid for himself!

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