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My friend keeps on bragging about how all his Imperial Guard guys are going to waste my Tau's because he has this and that, basilisk, ratling squad, blah blah blah. I need to know some good way to counter all that preferably with basic units: 1 squad of fire warriors, 5 pathfinders, 1 devilfish, 1 squad of kroots, 3 stealth suits, a Crisis and around 7-ish gun drones.
I really want him to stop bragging. It's really annoying. I know all armies can be good, depending how you play/their own specific strengths and such, but my friend just announces that imperial guard is automatically the best.
Oh, and btw: He doesn't even have his army yet. He just assumes his is gonna own mine =/
Last edited by Imanoob; June 18th, 2007 at 03:32.
If you want to destroy him, get a hammerhead or two and slap rail guns on them. That will deal with any thing from tanks to a squad that needs a good submunition. You should use 2 squads of firewarrios, but thats just personal preference. 1 of those squads should have a devilfish so you can fish of fury his cocky self. You don't have enough stealth suits to make a difference, but if you had 6 with BC you can pump a lot of shots into his meatshield squads. Use your pathfinders to marker light, then use those lights to help with pinning checks for your drones to pin a squad you don't want to deal with. Your kroot are just counter attack so keep them around trees and firewarriors to use them to thier advantage.
To stop with bragging you can either blow up his favored units with railguns, or you could just pick up your handy Big Rules Book and slap him upside the head (GW made it hardcover for a reason).
Sleeping, not dead.
Removed by the moderators.
First of all, your friend is going to have a really rude awakening. Second of all, Imperial Guard are a bad match up against Tau. Tau is a real dangerous threat to imperial guard with everything. With the models you mentioned, it seems you two are just starting. Your first games arent really gonna be very decisive but once you guys get some experience and get bigger armies youll learn how to deal with all his stuff. Railheads are godsend against guard...they shred tanks and light infantry like paper. I suggest two or three. Fire Warriors with markerlight support are hell on infantry. Take your pathfinders, marker light up a squad. Increase te BS of your fire warrior squads by 1 or 2, then take away his cover saves. With three hits you can hit on 3's, wound on 2's and he only gets 6+ saves (assuming he is on 4+cover) That is one really dead guard squad. Just make sure you stick your fire warriors in cover, you dont want the heavy bolters tearing them apart. Learn target priority, dont waste your time shooting at pointless crap. Agaisnt guard when i have fire warriors on the table, my number 1 target is hell hounds....those things will wreck a squad a turn. Make sure they die. Then go for those squishy heavy weapon squads, rough riders, and leman russ's. You can tell your friend to shove it until he actualy plays a few games...i think he will be surprised.
Joe Peshi (lone wolf) kill tally:Lash Sorcerer, Ghazkull, Yriel, Termi Libby, Vulkan.
agreed with all of the above.
the only thing you need to worry about is the front armour on his leman russ and his basilsik that he will sit behind cover and shoot ordanace at you (if he has any sense).
but the rear armour on both is killable with just pulse rifle fire.
i would get another 3 stealths and use a squad of 6 to infiltrate then move up the board using jump shoot jump. he will try all day to take these out and you can zoom your warriors up the board in the devilfish and get some sweet rapid fire on the back of his armour!
hammerheads with railguns are just unreal against guard. the subs round will take out 1/2 to a full squad a turn and the solid shot will cut through even his strongest armour like butter.
What makes guard so powerful against alot of armies is there ability to field alot of powerful ordanance toting tanks. When firing indirectly you dont need a line of sight so all units fielded are threatend by it. This means he can drop pie death on any stealth or battlesuits and they cannot hide with JSJ.
I don't agree that guard have a hard time with tau, if anything tau have a probelm with guard especialy in all comers games. Strong guard armies field alot of heavy weapons and dont care about losing half a squad to a submunitions round (oh no 30 points of guardsmen!).
I could go on but I will save my keyboard the wear. As for your problem of him bragging just tell him to shut up until he actualy has an army and then you can see how good of a player he is.
The man of tomorrow is judged by his battle today.
I'm not sure if you're asking for an army list, strategies, or a max, but I'll give you what I've got.
Since you've only got one Crisis suit, that becomes your obligatory Shas' el/o The most commonly preferred leader that I've seen so far is a Shas'el with a targeting array and two of these weapons: Cyclic Ion Blaster, Fusion Blaster or Plasma Rifle. The CIB could be best against guard because of their low toughness, but if I was taking a leader specifically against IG I would use a fusion blaster and missle pod with targeting array, as they are both great against vehicles and missle pods deal death from across the table.
I wish that I played against IG more often, because then I would be using my stealth suits a ton. With their infiltrate, deepstrike, cloaking and massive amount of shots, they are simply ideal. A deepstriking or infiltrating (infiltrating is usually preferred) squad will tear through a squad of guardsman, and is excellent at exposing the rear armour of his tanks. I used to use them for busting whirlwinds and basilisks all the time. I'd suggest getting more of these, a full squad or even two will be tough for him to kill and very potent. And remember to guide them with markerlights, it REALLY boosts their firepower. The option stands to upgrade them with either targeting arrays (for boosted Bs goodness) or...
1-2 gun drones per model, a personal favorite that I really really want to use. The basic premise is:
equipped gun drones cost less than regular gun drones
the drone controller is basically free
stealth squad drones gain the benefit of being stealthy.
basically, you're getting extra wounds for the squad but a slightly worse armour save, as three gun drones are worth one stealth suit essentially. Another way of thinking it is combining a drone squadron with a stealth squadron so that they can share markerlight counters and benefit from the cloaking ability.
So my personal suggestion is to get a squad of three stealth:
one with team leader, bonding knife, drone controller and two gun drones, and two stealth with drone controller and two gun drones.
Kroot are going to be pretty much awesome against IG. Their close combat stats are very superior, and their guns are a lot better too, for the cheap cost of one additional point. In addition, they can infiltrate, so set them up close to you enemy's flank and chew through his squads and vehicle rear armour.
Your firewarriors have superior range, firepower and saves to Guardsmen, so plant them in cover with pulse rifles and feed those suckers your bullets. They're great for holding objectives and table quarters, and make for a good home base with their great range.
Your pathfinders are forced to ride in a Devilfish, the only reason that I did not suggest that you upgrade the Fire Warrior squad with it. I'll take this in two parts:
Your pathfinders are going to be a boon to your entire force. Slightly more expensive than a fire warrior, they need to be handled delicately as your enemy will start pouring fire into them once they realise what pathfinders can do. Markerlights will make it incredibly easy for your stealth team and fire warriors to tear through a squad. That's pretty much all that pathfinders are good for, but they are REALLY REALLY good for it.
Your Devilfish, on the other hand, is a force to be reckoned with in itself. While a plain Devilfish is kind of wimpy, a Warfish (as they have rightly been dubbed) will devour infantry. Upgrade your Pathfinder's Devilfish with a Smart Missle System, Multi-Tracker, Targeting Array and Decoy Launchers and you will see what I am talking about. The Warfish has decent durability, but keep it moving and only glancing hits will afflict it. It's nigh impossible to destroy with close combat squads, and shooting should have a difficult time too. Remember that if it's being shot at while hovering and becomes immobilized, it can land and remain immobile for the remainder of the game, but if it's moving and immobilized it will be destroyed. Warfish can deal out great damage, tankshock units, stop units from assaulting your squads, and the Pathfinder Warfish will let your deepstriking squads reroll their landing.
It'd be swell to know what he's getting and such, but my recommendations for you are to A) buy more stealth suits as they pwn IG and buy Hammerheads (though I hear if you buy a Skyray it'll come with both Skyray and Hammerhead bits). Hammerheads, as has been mentioned before, are awesome both against tanks and masses of infantry. I take mine with a Railgun, Smart Missle System, Multi-Tracker, Decoy Launchers and Target Lock (an even 180 points). The Ion Cannon equipped Hammerhead (aka the Ionhead) is much much cheaper, but as they say, you get what you pay for. And the purpose of the target lock is to allow my railgun to fire at distant tanks and squads while my Smart Missle System deals with nearby infantry problems.
I hope all of this helps you out, though it might've been a pain to read through the lot of it. If you like it enough, gimme some rep :w00t: Here's to your success
My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.
Listen to me because I have a ton of experience.
Get an army you like, following these rules:
1. No markerlights. This means no pathfinders.
2. Railgun on hammerhead.
3. All fire warrior squads in devilfish.
4. Crisis are plasma, missile, multi. Take a targetting array if access to armoury (team leaders and commanders can take hardwired multi)
5. Stealths do not take team leaders and do not take fusion blasters.
6. All tanks have decoy launchers (piranhas are not a tank).
7. All hammerheads have multitrackers.
8. No vespids.
You may break rules 2 & 4 once you get more experience (especially rule 4).
Now, play against him, and have fun. Who cares if he wins. Good on him.
I find that against the mass of static heavy weapons of the IG, pathfinders are outgunned and will have to survive a turn of fire they can not survive before they can shoot if they are in LOS to the IG squads.
2. Agreed. Railguns on hammerhead, no broadsides, especially not against
3. Agreed. All firewarrior squads in a devilfish for FoF.
4. Take the commander as an 'el and give him a Targeting Array, plasma, and fusion gun. He will be awesome. Take 2 deathrains, 2 fireknives.
5. Never make your stealths take gundrones or team leader. If you want 'em that bad, get more stealths or a gun drone squad. 6 men straight no upgrades stealth squad is one of the best point for point.
6. Your tank upgrades can be sweet. Just don't go overboard. I find that only the multi tracker, targeting array, and decoy launchers are necessary. Flechettes are cool against tyranids.
8. NO VESPIDS!!!!!!!! ONLY FOR KILL-TEAM. NOTHING ELSE!
Also, buy more models. You really need more. A Hammerhead, stealth squads, more firewarriors.
Turtles For the Turtle God!
Shells For the Shell Throne!
I've got to debate you two guys, even though I agree on quite a few points.
Markerlights can be quite useful, it just takes a bit of practice and stuff, and I personally admire the pathfinder devilfish.
Your Fire Warriors don't have to be in Devilfish, but it is very much recommended. As is upgrading them to Warfish.
LittleBlueMan's advice on the army commander is good, the plasma/fusion/targeting array and don't forget multi-tracker is by far the most popular option for our leader. Weapons on your crisis suits is really ultimately up to you, but remember to not take burst cannons (you can get them with Stealth suits) and to not take Flamers (lowest S weapon in our arsenal, short range=bad). Plasma rifles, Missle pods and Fusion blasters are all awesome in their own right, and you can mix and match them for their own roles. Two different weapons with multitracker is great, and the Plasma Rifle/Missle Pod variant that Onlainari suggested, otherwise known as a Fireknife configuration, is the most popular and versatile format. Twin-linked missle pods and target locks are known as Deathrains, and are able to dish out lots of high S shots at great range. Fusion blaster and plasma rifle wielding suits, known as Helios are great at killing vehicles up close and destroying Space Marine types. My personal favorite for crisis configurations is twin-linked plasma rifles and a targeting array, as this has the highest kill rate against Marines.
I'm curious as to why you discourage gun drones in stealth teams, LittleBlueMan. A gun drone is, essentially, 1/3 of a stealth suit with pinning and a slightly worse save. They have a slightly better hit rate than stealths, and gain a much better benefit from markerlight hits. Also, being majority models, they are removed first, expending extra wounds that aren't going to your stealth and thus allowing you to maintain your high volume of firepower.
I would advise buying more stuff as well, but I suspect that you, like I, are on a budget. Go for a Hammerhead as your next purchase, it will be well worth it. You may very well wish to get two, or even three before you start filling out the rest of your army. Remember that Crisis suits are a godsend against Marines, Chaos and Necrons, and you should have all of your firewarrior squads in Devilfish. After you get all of that stuff, it'll really be up to you
My gaming group's new motto: That army you're using is overpowered because it hurts my guys, codex is broken and needs a rewrite.