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I am a brand knew general of the Hive Mind, and have just come from playing Space Wolves for 2 years. I need advice on where to go next, as I have one unit of 8 gaunts, and another unit of 8 hormagaunts(as a quick side note, isn't it sooo anoying that the set of gaunts can only make 8 of each type, not 16 of the same!!!!!) My Hive Tyrant has a Venom cannon and barbed strangler all built on, so that is set. The gaunts have fleshborers. So i was wondering if all you Tyranid vets could give me some advice on a good nid' list. I would also like to know all the mainstay units that you find most useful and the best biomorphs to take.
Thanks a bunch!!
Well, all I can really say is that there are not really any "best" units for any Hivefleet. Tyranids can be widely customized and have such a variety of units that there really isn't a superior list. It's all based on your play style. You could load up on MCs for Nidzilla, go swarm/horde, or some combination of both. Ya might also be suprised to hear that a nid list can even be pretty shooty.
Like I said, all based on how you would like to play them. I would recommend though that you get a battleforce or two... that show do ya for awhile and give you a few options.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes
Yup, two battle forces. The tyranid battle force is the most useful battle force of any army. About the only thing anyone ever complains about not using that is in the battle force are the warriros. Even those can be useful to some people.
So two battle forces and 3 zoanthropes should be on your shopping list.
EDIT: Oh another thing. Check out bwbits.com. You can pick up extra gaunt bodies for cheap to make use of the extra weapons that you're not using from the Gaunt spru. Or you can pick up extra weapons to convert the 8 other bodies that come with the gaunts to get the 16 you desire.
"The internet perceives censorship as damage, and routes around it."
We do actually have a third style of play list, less used and more often people pass it up or get bored of it, but basically you take a broodlord and lots and lots of genestealers. Then a few raveners, maybe a lictor or two & a carnifex kitted for anti-tank.
I personally like my horde list that I'm working on, course haven't really worked on it in a while but then I'm working on that too.
Legion Of Everblight: Abyslonia
Protectorate of Menoth: Grand Exemplar Kreoss
I use a middle ground kinda list... CC winged tyrant, supergaunts, some genestealers, shooty warriors, couple of lictors, and shooty carnifexes.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes
You can go for psychic scream on all three instead. You can then deploy them near your Hive tyrant but not close enough to be caught by large blast weapons. They can benefit from the Tyrant's synapse power and add thier own psychic scream to his if he has it. The effect is a massive penalty to enemy LD. If someone who isn't fearless tries to assault the Hive tyrant they will have to test for the horror with very little chance of success, basically they will just run to the Hive tyrant and stand there to be blown away by his guns.
I also suggest that you invest in a few Spore mines even if you don't get any Biovores, Biovores are ok but not great. You can use these Spore mines in fast atack as spore clusters. They are cheap and a great way of using up the last few points in an army list, if you have any spare fast attack slots left.
Raveners are good too. They are fast and nasty. I find they work best with rending claws and scything talons not just scything talons on thier own. You can use the arms from Genestealers on Ravener models to show scything talons. You will find the rending ability makes them much nastier.
You don't need them to have any ranged weapon if you don't feel you'll need it, Raveners can spend most of the game in cover or assaulting easily. Another thing about Raveners is that they work well in both big and small broods. The small broods work well as only one or two Raveners is hardly worth shooting but still a pain.
A Carnifex with a venom cannon and a barbed strangler plus enhanced senses is good. You can give it a few biomorphs to make it tough. I recommend bonded exoskeleton, reinforced chitin and extended carapace. That is fairly expensive but it will also be very hard to destroy.
WARNING - This ended up being a very rambling post, with a little bit of my own arrogance/bias thrown in. I'm going to leave it for the valuable points I think are made, but the reader with limited time should probably consider skimming :w00t:
Best advice is to get the nid book, plan a list, proxy it a few times in battles with friendly opponents, and post it on these forums in the list section for feedback.
There is a huge variety of list types you can field as a Tyranid, owing to the wide variety of unit types we have, and the wide variety of roles many of those units can be outfitted to perform in battle.
I personally use a mass bullets list focusing on a full force organization chart for tactical deployment advantages, and tons upon tons of shots.
My own $.02 on Tyranids is that they can be extremely cheap and yet extremely effective, with one of the best valued shooting armies in the game that manages to maintain close combat ability despite being mega shooty.
For 121 points you can have a Tyrant with 12 shots at S5 hitting on 3+ that re-roll misses and wounds, while still having 3 high strength, high weapon skill, high initiative attacks in close combat that ignore armor and roll 2d6 for vehicle armor penetration. You also get a 3+ save, T6 and W4, require leadership tests to be charged in close combat, grant immunity to morale/pinning/instankill to all friendly models within 12", roll 3d6 through cover and can re-roll a bad one, etc.
Or how about when a Carnifex that for 149 points can climb vertical walls, use 2 high strength attacks in close combat that will instakill almost any enemy character, shoot 3 vehicle popping shots a turn (2 at the highest strength possible), survive lots of incoming fire and be considered your LEAST efficient purchase.
There's a lot of choices you can go with. I prefer shootynids, and since going devourer heavy and really learning the army, I've never lost (/ego).
The thing is, and you've played Space Wolves so you're no nub, but it is not a mistake-tolerant army. Built right, you will demolish opponents who make errors, and you will give even flawless opponents a hell of a hard time, BUT make errors of your own and things will get grim in a hurry for you. SOOO plan and pick an army ahead of time before buying everything, and then take advantage of Battlewagon Bits to get around some of the poor box designs. I.E. you can order spinefists and turn the hormagaunts in the boxed gaunt set into more spinegaunts.
Good luck w/ the great devourer. While my blog is still young, feel free to check out the battle report I have in there ... it shows a very good example of what a shooty nid list can do in action - and against a melee-heavy space wolf army at that.
PS - I strongly recommend min-maxing and not loading creatures up with tons of biomorphs. I've played against a wide variety of 'Nid players using expensive critters, tons of EC genestealers, carnifexes with all defensive upgrades, etc., and while they do great against nubs and rookies, they typically get obliterated by veteran players that know what they're about. Even the big gribblies like Tyrants and Fexes - no matter how much you upgrade them - will die if a talented enemy wants them to. The trick is to provide such a high # of dangerous targets that your opponent screws himself no matter what he does. In my own list, if an opponent dedicates all his fire to killing carnifexes and tyrants, the warriors raveners and spinegaunts will absolutely kill him. If he dedicates his fire to keeping the hordes off him, the big guys will tear him apart. My best recommendation is to go for max # of models and a fully fleshed out force chart with one dedicated goal (shooting or melee) instead of a "variety" list full of expensive biomorphs, not enough creatures, and too much variety-of-focus. If you go mega-melee, put sniperfexes in for anti-tank support and dedicate pretty much everything else to melee. If you go mega-shooty, put in raveners for anti-melee-specialist support and dedicate everything else to shooty. Buy cheap, and buy as many units AND models as possible to give your opponent the MOST difficult time with choosing what to shoot at.
Case in point: 4 well-aimed lascannon shots will kill a 121 point tyrant. The same 4 well-aimed lascannon shots will kill a 250 point mega melee flying tyrant. I much prefer having 2 121 point tyrants for 242 points than 1 "super" tyrant who is just as easy to kill with dedicated heavy fire. Don't tie yourself up with expensive models, they'll never earn their points back properly against opponents who are veteran enough to deal with them. Beating up on nubs doesn't count as "wow they worked so great for me."
Final addendum/reiteration - do NOT buy a "balanced list capable of taking on everything," a common phrase usually used by people who don't win all that often (with exceptions, naturally). Having an army with genestealers, spinegaunts, hormagaunts, raveners, gargoyles, a broodlord and a shooty tyrant, a melee carnifex and some zoanthropes usually is FAR less effective than an army with both redundancy and regularity of role. If you spread out too much in your army role, you're going to end up looking that way on the field of battle.
No army is as capable as 'Nids at throwing a TON of targets on the board while still having them each be very effective.
Last edited by MVBrandt; July 2nd, 2007 at 22:38.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
Welcome Spacewolf92, Welcome to the swarm as an ex Son of Russ myself i think it might be worth passing on a few general bits of advice to help you with your transition to the Hivemind
I say im an Ex spacewolf player, i still have my army in storage somewhere and the reason why is...Tyranids simply are such a more gratifying, pleasurable army to use in comparision, i have never felt the need to play spacewolves since.
i would follow the advice allready given by the vets here, i would also go for 1 MC for every 500pts you field, that should get you a nice balance and you can pick and chose after a few battles if you want more big nasties or more numbers, generally a balanced list/ mixture of MCs and numbers is more allround and will give a better chance of success.
i would eventually aim to get 2 hive tyrants for your army(i have 1 winged and 1 walking), after a couple of games you will see why, also get 3 zoanthropes a carnifex or 2 and stock up on gaunts, (Spinegaunts and hormagaunts) and throw a brood or 2 genestealers in there for good measure. This will give you a really nice allround force that can take on pretty much anything.
Things you will notice very quickly about Tyranids/Spacewolves
1/ Tyranids are much more faster and mobile
2/ Tyranids force chart gives allot more freedom, no having to take HQs for every 750pts or manditory having to take a 1+ troop choice
3/ Tyranids Armies can take large amounts of causalties and still be effective
4/ Personally i Feel tyranids are better shooting and better in assualt than spacewolves
The only cons are you will need to use cover allot more, your stealers and gaunts dont have power armour on Sadly Also nids can't take 15 man squads of bloodclaws with 3 powerfists(not to worry we have stealers instead :yes
Hope that helps
Last edited by Hivefleet Hades; July 2nd, 2007 at 22:31.
Army of the heavens, my army waits in hell
To battle on the earth, for all the souls who fell