Raveners - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

View Poll Results: Which is better in your opinion?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Having 1 squad of 3 raveners

    30 32.61%
  • Having 3 squads of 1 ravener each

    62 67.39%
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24

Thread: Raveners

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    26
    Posts
    153
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    49 (x1)

    Raveners

    Which is better in your opinion?

    1. Having 1 squad of 3 raveners

    OR

    2. Having 3 squads of 1 ravener each


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Blood Boy Leech's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Northern Ireland
    Age
    37
    Posts
    3,643
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    ReputationReputation
    795 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Triple Threat View Post
    Which is better in your opinion?

    1. Having 1 squad of 3 raveners

    OR

    2. Having 3 squads of 1 ravener each
    I think a brood of three Raveners is more effective than three broods of one. One brood of three Raveners is as destructive as three broods of one and vice-versa. The problems with three tiny broods are that it eats up the whole fast attack section to do it and that is annoying. Three Raveners may be difficult to aim at and able to snatch table quarters etc. These abilities don't compensate for sucking up a whole section of the swarm chart denying the use of many other handy critters.

    The best part of three individual Raveners is also the problem the enemy has in trying to engage them, each one must be singled out on it's own. Zoanthropes can do this too and they do it better. Zoanthropes are much nastier than Raveners and as such a bigger priority for the enemy to use a whole tanks firepower to kill just one. This makes the Zoanthropes better in the distract capacity.

    Three Zoanthropes will only use up one slot in heavy support, the three individual Raveners eat up three fast attack. Better to have the three Raveners in a group and use Gargoyles, winged Tyranid warriors and other nasties.

    Overall Raveners used individually can be good but they aren't so good as to warrant inflicting such penalties on yourself as wasting the whole fast attack section on them.

  4. #3
    Senior Member andrewthotep's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In a box under the stairs.
    Posts
    529
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputation
    39 (x2)

    My typical serving of raveners is 2 singletons or 2 pairs, so I can put winged warriors in the other FA slot. If I simply absolutely had to run three raveners, however, I'd look at splitting them up as far as possible since they are far more annoying for the food's target selection that way, especially if I run them as if they were a single squad.

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Age
    28
    Posts
    75
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    6 (x1)

    I can't really say. For small games of about 1000 pts or less (leaning towards the less) usually 3 squads of 1 would be better but in big games when you need the fast attack slots more than small games i would use 1 squad of 3
    40k Record W-L-T
    Soul Reapers Necrons 8-14-2 Hive Fleet Behemoth Tyranids 21-7-1 Raven Guard Marines 12-6-5

  6. #5
    Charitably Tables People MVBrandt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia, near Washington, DC, USA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,500
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    196 (x5)

    I am a big ravener fan. I encourage you to read the battle report in my blog (linked in sig) to see an idea of what they can do.

    I personally use a shooty list, and as such use raveners to fill out my force chart for 17 deployments, and as my melee punch. There's really very little that can stand up to a charge of 6 of them, and so they provide either an offensive killshot or a defensive countercharge of epic proportions.

    They assault better than flying rending warriors, at a WAY cheaper cost and similar speed. I don't waste time on swarms as a general rule, and tackle the responsibility of tons o' wounds for cheap using spinegaunts in every troops choice. Gargoyles are meh in my book, again I take care of any shooting need with the bulk of my army. SO I typically operate in a 1500 list with 17 deployments, 3 of which are pairs of raveners.

    Unless you have this desperate desire to make your army work with other fast attack choices, 3 individuals are ALWAYS better. They require 3 separate attacks to kill, instead of one heavy round of shooting. I.E. a squad of 10 rapid firing bolters can only kill 1 ravener, instead of all 3, if you happen to screw up and leave 'em out in the open for a turn. In assault, it's the same thing. The enemy has to either kill one at a time or divert his attacks and possibly just put wounds on singles. You also don't get forced to apply over-wounds to other models. You get the same number of attacks, and if the situation demands it you can also split them apart to tie - up or do some charging rending damage to multiple targets at once.

    Plus, rather duh, 3 separate scoring units vs. 1, and singles are easier to hide than a trio requiring squad coherency.

    It depends on how you use them, though, and how you use your force chart. None of the other force selections fit in my army scheme, and I believe none of the other fast attack Nid choices offers the same bang for your buck as a 40 point model that has 5 rending attacks on the charge, and charges 19-24" on a turn, and can be deployed as a single model. Get 6 in 3 slots, and for 240 quite hard to kill points (if you are smart with where you put them and use the distance they can charge across to your advantage, plus their late deployment time) you can kill things WAY pricier than them in a single turn. 450 point large grey knight terminator squads for instance ...

    /endrant

    I've used the whole spectrum of nid fast attack, and don't believe for me any other type is worth the investment, so why not use all 3 slots, and gain the added advantages they provide. THE ONLY disadvantage of splitting them up is losing force chart selections. That's it. Unless you play them stupidly out in the open or something. I use them well, and they've never failed to make up their points in over 85 games. The same cannot be said for any other nid fast attack choice I've used (that is to say, none of the others have literally never failed to make up their points). {goofy}




    Shortform

    The question is, weigh the pros and cons ...

    3 Squads of 1
    - Maximizing tactical deployment advantage
    - Harder to quickly target and kill
    - Easier to hide
    - 3 Scoring Units
    - Splittable as needed
    - Difficult to allocate attacks against in melee
    - Redundancy in case of a bad fleet roll
    - Extremely cheap way to get 3 extra deployments and extend your deployment further
    - Perhaps the most rending attacks for cheap you can get, since genestealers require a minimum of 96 points with no upgrades at a slower speed
    - Takes up 3 chart selections instead of 1, if you have other units you're desperate to use
    - If operating near each other, requires the killing of ALL of them to remove the group as a scoring unit

    1 Squad of 3
    - Takes up 1 force organization chart selection instead of 3
    - Harder to hide; squad coherency rules makes 3 bases in a generally same area to account for instead of individuals who can be spread more if terrain dictates it
    - Just as much firepower as 3 of 1, but more vulnerable to concentrated fire
    - Vulnerable to leaving you high and dry with a bad fleet roll
    - Can only go after one target at a time
    - Only one scoring unit, can be dropped to non-scoring w/out killing all of them ... can kill 2 and have the unit no longer count as scoring, saving precious late-game shots for other units instead of being forced to kill the last one
    - 120 point unit with 15 rending attacks on the charge, 12 otherwise; for 96 points you get 6 genestealers with 12 rending attacks and 18 on the charge ... 1 force selection either way ... no longer being as points efficient as raveners are capable of being
    Last edited by MVBrandt; June 30th, 2007 at 03:00.
    Nids & Guard
    GMail = MVBrandt

  7. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Minneapolis, Minnesota (USA)
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,252
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    75 (x3)

    I voted for three units of one because I wish so badly that I could do that. I however run two squads of 16 gargoyles, so I have to bunch mine all together. Either way they are great, but 3 units is always better than one when you are the aggressor, and with ravenors you always should be.

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Age
    26
    Posts
    50
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    3 (x1)

    I personally voted for the three raveners in one squad, rather than one ravener in 3 squads. Like nichodemus10, I love my gargoyles. Even though I find raveners completely and utterly useless in my battles, I still love them, and I still field a unit of 6 with rending claws in every match. And i've won 10 games without them ever having any real effect on the combat. They're great units, but when it comes to mobility, other units are greatly faster. If you can get them into CC, they are devestating. However, others know it too, and they like to shoot them down in my fights. So, I'm forced to play horde. That in turn blocks off the raveners from getting into most of the combat, and ruins their potential. The best way to use them is to ds in with devourers, and shoot up the nearest unit to soften any possible fire aimed at them.

    All in all, bunching them together is probably the best way to go. However, unless you have some way of protecting them they're pretty fragile. I love them, but they go down too easy. Other units are better suited for the role of angry cc mauler.

  9. #8
    Charitably Tables People MVBrandt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Virginia, near Washington, DC, USA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    1,500
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputationReputation
    196 (x5)

    Audible Silence - might I suggest splitting them up into smaller units, and hiding them behind MC's or cover in general until the time comes to charge them their massive distance in. You may find they're less fragile than you think.
    Nids & Guard
    GMail = MVBrandt

  10. #9
    Member kalender's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    278
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    20 (x1)

    Well, I think the best reply is: spread them as much as you can. Having them split in several units only brings advantages, but if you are planning on fielding other units in FA slots then you have to clump them in larger squads. I, for example, am still building my gargoyle swarms, I only have a unit of 10, so... I spread my raveners as much as I can in the other two FA slots. If I don't plan on using the gargoyles, though, I would field them as three separate units.

    MVBrandt made a great analysis of the advantages of fielding them separately, rep to him :yes:

  11. #10
    Victorus aut Mortis Shad0w_Reaper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Brisbane, QLD, Australia
    Age
    27
    Posts
    685
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    74 (x2)

    Id have them in one squad of 3. I find they generally get shot up if I field them seperately, plus I like to have room in my FOC for some winged warriors.
    Space Wolves (Under Construction) | Circle of Orboros (Under Construction)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts