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a Dakka fex:2 tl dev + biomorphs
a dakka warrior squad:with tl dev + biomorphs
a dakka warrior squad:with dev & cc weapon + biomorphs
Forget the dakka-dakka, its not useful
Please make your pick and explain (can be based on points, mobility, effectiveness, etc)
I'd go with the dakka-fex, but thats mostly because I think that shooty warriors are more effective with deathspitters and a venom cannon.
If you're getting warriors close enough to use devourers or anything with a shorter range, ya might as well make leaping CC warriors. But that's just me...
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes
The Dakkafex is the best. It's STR and endurance plus being all twinlinked is very good. An idea anti-personel and light vehicle weapon. Tyranid warriors are good but thier talents lie in other areas such as being tooled up for assault and or using deathspitters.
Twinlinked weapons on Tyranid warriors are just far to pricey for using up all the weapon slots and providing only limited gains. Of course I have to say that which of these things the Dakkafex or Warriors with shooty and close combat weapons, depends entirely on the makeup of my swarm. Lots of Gaunts and Hormagaunts will need those Warriors to keep them in line more than I need a Dakkafex.
Last edited by Leech; July 1st, 2007 at 01:10.
Since I'm anti "too many MC's" in my own lists due to cheese/etc., and since I use my fex models for anti-tank sniperfexing, I chose TL Dev warriors.
In a flat-out effectiveness sense coupled w/ durability, the Fex is a better idea in a vaccuum. They just don't fit into my army scheme, which uses 3 squads of 3 tl dev wars + es/ts, 2 2xtl dev tyrants and 2-3 sniperfexes.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
The DakkaFex all the way. The rationale for my saying that is twofold:
First, the DakkaFex puts out (point for point) about as many if not a few more (depending on biomorphs) shots per point as warriors ever can. Bringing extra warriors doesn't really give me that much more firepower than a DakkaFex, so they don't lose the comparison on that measuring stick. They come out roughly equal to warriors when comparing sheer number of shots.
Secondly, a DakkaFex will stand up to a round of dedicated shooting from almost any single enemy unit. Warriors tend not to. a dev squad of heavy bolters, or any other unit with more than one HB (or several units with HBs) will completely destroy a unit of warriors. The DakkaFex stands up to HB and furthermore, it stands up to dedicated bolter fire much much better than a unit of warriors, and that's why I take DakkaFexes instead of warriors.
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Dakkafex. Just as many shots as a warrior squad, plus the added survivablity, itd probly end up costing simliar points to the warrior squad, and its big and looks cool
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well the thing is you have to take in to concideration the amount of Sv. Rolls each brrod will cause. takeing into concideration the amount of attacks and the effects of each brrod. that means the the carnifex will be 8 attacks at S6 wich mathmaticly come out to be about 5.83 save rolls. As for the a Squad of 4 warriors all with Scything tallons, Toxin sacs, and Devours, giving them 8 attacks with S4 mathmaticly giving them an average of 3 save rolls. also considering the fact that the carnifex only cost about 115 in points, it can take on the roll of an elite. and the brood of worriors being about 125 pts I would say that the carnifex is going to do more damage. The last thing you want to consider is amout of wounds each has, the carnifex only has 4, but the brrod of worriors has 8, the carnifex having a 3+ save roll, and the worriors having a 5+ for the carnifex to not count as a scoring you you opponet only needs to make 3 wounds on him, but for the owrriors he/she has to kill off completly 3 models, or 6 wounds total. twice as much. although it is much easyer to wound a worrior at 5+ thats still twice the wounds. and if you have the points you could always buy EC for the worriors and increase there rate of survival.
In anycase it just depends on what your facing, and what you would rather field ... A big scary looking bug, or 4 sligtly smaller but still scary bugs ... all up to you.
Scything talon + devourer warriors are probably not the way to go if you're going to go that way, so the math is not quite right.
For 105 points you can have 3 warriors with enhanced senses, toxin sacs and twin-linked devourers (2 devourers satisfies the weapon biomorph choices, and become twin-linked).
6 wounds are required to take out the warriors, but 2 wounds removes 4 of the 12 shots, so they are not as durable as the carnifex. On the other hand, you'll find that warriors tend to take less shots than Carnifexes, are still a few points cheaper than the 113 point fex, are fieldable in sub-1500 point games, and are synapse. People just shoot at mc's and swarms before they shoot at warriors most of the time, plus they're easier to hide early on.
The Carnifex shoots 8 times against a T4 MEQ with 4 hitting, and 2 more hitting on the re-roll. 5 of 6 wound and .83 wound on the reroll. 5.83 saves. This will kill 1.94 MEQs. Against a T3 GEQ you'll also force 5.83 saves. This will kill 3.89 GEQ or 2.92 carapace-armored GEQ/fire warriors. So, Fex at anti-infantry is killing 1.94 marines, 2.92 fire warriors or 3.89 basic guardsmen in one round of firing.
The Warriors shoot 12 times against a T4 MEQ with 6 hitting, and 3 more hitting on the re-roll. 4.5 wound and 2.25 wound on the re-roll. 6.75 saves. This will kill 2.25 MEQs. Against a T3 GEQ you'll force even MORE saves (gaining a higher advantage than the already 5.83 fex against T3 targets) - 6 wounds out of the 9 hits, with 2 more on the re-roll. That's 8 saves. This will kill 5.33 GEQ or 4 carapace-armored GEQ/fire warriors. So, the warriors are more potent than the carnifex at anti-infantry for a few points less in terms of pure offensive ability. They are killing 2.25 marines, 4 fire warriors or 5.33 basic guardsmen in one round of firing.
Let's talk about what happens if you get stuck in melee. This is a curious situation. The fex has a simple 2 attacks with a meager weapon skill of 3 and an initiative of 1. These attacks are better than a marine power fist at S9, and 9+2d6 against vehicles. The warriors are attacking 6 times (2 each) at WS4 and I4, but only S5. Depending on your opponent, one or the other is better. The fex is certainly more durable, unless it's against a marine squad with a pfist. You won't be able to get through them all with the limited attacks b4 the pfist ganks you in a lot of cases (hitting on 3 and wounding on 2). Vs. the warriors the pfist is less effective, hitting on 4, wounding on 2 still, but not being able to instakill.
All in all, for a variety of reasons I still choose the warriors. More synapse, somewaht cheaper, more models, easier to hide and cover up, and keeps from having a "nidzilla" with 5-6 fexes and 2 tyrants, since I already field 2-3 in my heavy support and 2 tyrants. Plus the list is a little more "take all comers" and I have more durable synapse instead of it being stuck in 2-3 models.
In a vaccuum, though, the dakkafex is still probably a better option. It'll typically take more fire before dying (at least light weapons fire), and it has better anti-vehicle capability due to the 2 higher strength on each shot. Think hard before you commit to it, though, when you consider the still-high-value of the warriors in the greater scheme of a full army.
Nids & Guard
GMail = MVBrandt
sorry I forgot to take into consideration that the devour is a x2 weapon rather than an x weapon. that clears things up, usualy I take 4 worrior due to the fact that your advisary needs to kill off 3 worriors before the unit doesn't count for victory points.rather than 2 with a brood of 3. If your not worried about that then by all means spend the 105 pts on taking the 3 worriros. For the twin linked it cost too many points for me personaly, so running with 4 Non TW devourers is quite sufficiant.
4 worriors with Dev. ST, and TS is apx. 125 pts.
16 attacks 8 hitting, then 4 wounding given 2 for the re-roll gives 6 sv rolls.
Ironicly I'm spending more points for the same result as your 3 worriors with your modifications ... but at least I still get to fire with my 1 worrior after 3 have already died =p.
Also if you can keep a CC tyrant with a bonesword with your dakka fex's that should let you hit back against anything that hits the dakka fex's. Or even better, give the tyrant a venom cannon and a bone sword and then he can pop shots off at people, and give the catalist power to the surounding dakka fexes ... and besides who says you can't take both? I mean I love feilding 2 dakka fexs with the worrior in betwwen the two. it increases the rate of survival of the worriors given people focus on th MC rather than the worriors. and thats putting off alot of fire power for about 325 pts or so.