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The Tried & True format for the Tau is all nice and good. I will not deny it. But I can't help but pry into and try to make a different use for the units avaliable.
Why spend 140-160pts on a Hammerhead when for the same price you can have 2 Brioadsides? Lack of support, anything with S7+ can take down a Broadside no problemo, and they need to stay still to fire...
But the main reason is the lack of support.
Why not use Vespid? They suck at their projected job: MEQ-killers.
They have the same S weapon as the Dark Reapers minus the range but plus maneuverability. They have a good Initiative and will nicely take down the MEQs if they get the charge (except the ICs, as is to be expected).
Vespid = Support unit IMO. They stay back, waiting for the inevitable argument-proving assault unitto come rolling up to charge the broadsides, then jump forth, firing their guns, then dive into the enemy and lock them up for a turn. They don't cost nearly as much as other Jump infantry for the squad size, and the locking is effective for enemy lines to be blocked up.
Stealths. They are nice, but the Piranhas have the same weaponry + 2 drones each.
A full squad of Piranhas with 2 Fusion blasters is a powerful force.
5 Stealths can be shot down with a relative ease with their unaugmented T and 1 wound each. They can offset this by being hard to see, and gaining cover saves, and JSJ... But Piranhas pack the same punch and move like crazy, only get hit on 6s, and only get glancing hits. If 1 is immbolilsed, it dies should the rest of the unit move, ohnoes, boo hoo. 2 possible chances to die out of 6 after another 1/6 chance to actually be hit. The other ones merely slow them down or stop them hitting so hard.
Compare this to the 'get hit and then wounded 1 time to die' and you have a keeper. The extra 20pts or so pays for the drones that can pin.
This isn't to say that Stealths aren't worth it. Oh no.
They are quite the danger. The infiltrating ability is , especially if used right. Deploy behind or in cover, then JSJ the enemy from word go. Gaining power in range and cover for when the enemy tries to remove you, so you take less casualties. In doing so, they take some pressure off the other units you have advancing. If you give them a few Marker drones you have turn 1 seeker missiles coming to the enemy, .
Fire warriors are still capable of being an assault force... of sorts. This is only actually feasible against low-S, low-size, and/or low-I enemies, but it's still a laugh. Arm a full squad with Pulse Carbines and rush them up as fast as you can, the enemy assaulters with that good ol' pin gun. Pathfinders are good for this too, as if you couldn't tell. Thing is that Pathfinders can also sit back after their scout move and act as a support battery for the advancing Firewarriors. Just move the Devilfish foreward as an assault. The Tau at full strength could fire 12 S5 pinning blows, with any drones possibly doing the same, then making 24-27 attacks on the charge - not too shabby -. 3 Fish in a mobile formation can be frustrating for the enemy, up to 21 S5 attacks at range per turn isn't something to ignore.
Kroot are useful as a counter-assault and infiltrating unit. They'll deploy after the enemy close infiltrators of at all possible, and will form walls in front of any precious comoddities you have, forcing the enemy to go through the slavering masses of hungry, hungry, hippos.
They're cheap too, which is an added bonus.
Gun Drones aren't really woth it, you can get them for free with Piranhas, they can be aded to all of the vehicles, and can be taken with a basic troops choice. The squad of them isn't worth the time or FoC, really.
Skyrays are nice. Give them a far-back place, backing the edge of the board, and make it as cheap as possible. In conjunction with a few marker drones on Stealths, they will be a horrifying presence.
Crisis suits are sent from Heaven. 'nuff said.
Ethreals can actually be useful. Think of using a SM Chaplain without the one-trackedness on assault. Where he's needed most, he can go, joining a squad and making them almost fearless. Not to mention the Honour Guard. These babies can really turn the tide of battle. And who says they're a living target? Thanks to the IC rules, they need never be targeted.
'el or 'o...?
'o. Definately 'o. The BS increasing upgrade may be cheaper, but isn't hardwired, so you are giving up a weapon or support system. I think it's worth paying an extra 10pts or so to be able to have 2 guns AND a shield Gen with an extra wound.
I may be making a list in the near future... I hope it works out.
Last edited by <E!_Mance>; July 3rd, 2007 at 07:37.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
[QUOTE=<E!_Mance>;959413][SIZE=1][COLOR=Navy][B]The[FONT=Comic Sans MS] Tried & True format for the Tau is all nice and good. I will not deny it. But I can't help but pry into and try to make a different use for the units avaliable.
I have no use for these either.
P.S. your font is very difficult to read.
Bolters don't kill AV11, which is a Piranhas front 90 degree arc. If you can't use that to effectively stop bolters from downing your Piranha's then you have no business using them.
And I do realize that when they close to strike their lower range weapon often means you have no choice in the matter.
But honestly, at that point they have made their attack and sunk a dangerous piece of ordinance that would insta kill your crisis suits, or that nasty Jump Chaplain or DP who was about to walk through your line.
Now, I don't know about you, but last I checked vehicles were immune to morale tests, and skimmers were nearly immune to Close Combat. Since their speed and front AV11 make them reasonably immune to regular infantry weapons as well, where do you get that they are more vulnerable than stealth suits? Besides if you use their drones to possibly pin then charge and tie up a nearby unit, that is one(or even 2 in extraordinary circumstance when pin works then charge a different unit) less unit shooting at them. Additionally, running them in units of two means both have to be killed in order for you opponent to get VP's.
And I don't think he was advocating not using Vespid, only saying they should be reserve forces used in emergencies.
Yes, I did take into Consideration the low Initiative for Tau, this is why I said to do it to weak and/or slow enemies. That is still an unprecedented thing, and it locks them up for a bit at the very least.
Vespid do work as Broadside support. Take Broadsides and Vespid. You'll see that it is a viable thing if used right.
Gun Drones as 'fast' attack is stupid. 4-8 of them in a unit is a waste of a FoC slot IMO. You could make the Piranhas or Vespid, both actually fast, take their place, and thus do something worthwhile. As I said before. 1 Troops choice can have 4 of the things included in the unit, why waste a Fast attack space for that to double that?
Broadsides cannot use submunition, true. But one can give them plasma and it is all good for MEQ . They can have up to 3 hitting the enemy as opposed to a single Hammerhead. Maneuverability doesn't matter overly much of you just know how to place them right. Making the enemy heavy armour hide away and staying ineffective can be worth it on its own.
Assault units aren't too fearsome to Tau if you can coutner them properly. move your counter-units into JUST over 12" away from jump infantry and they have 2 choices, don't assault or assault the weaklings. The vespid will die, but they will have given casualties and kept the broadsides open. If the Chappy and his squad utterly kill the Vespid 11, so frikin what? 381pts of Marines I'm assuming 130-somethingpts of Vespid... No, really? In 1 turn they die, and the enemy is open for Broadside guns. If they aren't teeming with pwn you can charge them and take a brunt. in 2 rounds you die and it's your turn again anyway.
One must learn to guage one's targets properly of course, but I assumed this was known.
Last edited by <E!_Mance>; July 3rd, 2007 at 07:39.
Post your army lists in the ARMY LIST section! Not that hard!
Maneuverablility does matter, espcially for heavies. As you know, heavy FOC slots are placed first on the table so placing them right, when nothing else is on the table, is more of a guessing game than anything else. Mobility helps to counter the handicap of being placed first on the board. And yes, shutting down firing lanes with broadsides has been pretty effective for me. Right now I run with two HHs and a pair of broadsides.
I don't exactly understand the second half here. Are you suggesting assaulting assault marines, with a chaplain, with broadsides? It won't take two turns to die.
About the O/'El thing, go for an EL and give it a targeting array. 15 pts. cheaper, same BS, perfect!
No vespids. They look excellent on paper, but a unit of firewarriors will kill more meq's rapidfiring than vespids will, and if in a devilfish won't get charged and are as mobile.
Pirahnas, erm, well I dunno how much I like these yet.
I never really take that many leadership tests with my Tau due to all of my models being moving/in tanks. An ethereal is pretty redundant in a bad way for me, so I like the points in a squad of crisis suits.
Turtles For the Turtle God!
Shells For the Shell Throne!
Piranha are nearly immune to CC I'll give you that, unless of course you run into something that uses the rending rule or a powerfist or a MC. However, there are a very large number of ranged weaponery that will easily take these guys down. Since they are a unit of two, as little as two shots can bring down the whole thing. I believe when deploying the gundrones all four would become a single unit don't they? Plus they are open topped, so you'll be adding a 1 to each glance roll, and heaven forbid they get hit with template or blast weapon.
Oh, and who ever gave me negative rep for stating I don't know what I'm talking about and running without signing, thanks. Whatever you do, please don't give me a chance to defend my position, just nail me with -rep and hide.
Last edited by Otsego; July 3rd, 2007 at 23:45.
I agree with how you use the Vespid, I use mine in a simliar manner. Have them wait for the right opportunity, then come in blazing with S5 Ap3 weaponry, wiping out a fair few numbers, and then hold the squad up while other squads move into position to kill any enemies who make it out of the combat.
I would take stealths over piranhas any day. I find that the piranhas get shot down too easy. Whereas the stealths have the stealth field, plus the JSJ. Sure, the piranhas are fast, and will mostly take glancing hits, but against a dark eldar army full of dark lances, or even eldar, they dont stand a chance.
I tend not to use my firewarriors like that, although I do remember once where my lone firewarrior Shas'Ui beat the crap out of a Catachan Captain or watever they are, and forced them to flee, and he actually caught up with them. Luckiest things thats ever happened to me in close combat
Kroot I agree with.
However, I beleive gun drones are great. They are good squads to sacrifice to hold up charges or send down the flanks. Even deepstriking them into enemy lines, your opponent will have to either waste a turn shooting them, or let them sit there and pin you down with pulse carbine fire. They are good for drawing fire.
Skyray and Crisis suits, I totally agree. Crisis suits are the best thing about tau, one of the reasons I started playing them.
Ethereals are great, I use them to give my army a bit of a leadership boost, plus BS 4 firewarriors...mmmmmm!!!
As for 'O or 'El, I beleive it comes down to personal preference, alot of people would argue the point that 'Els are better, goes the same for 'Os.
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