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Shas'El, FB, PR, TA, HWMT = 97 points (Helios)
Shas'El, CIB, PR, TA, HWMT = 100 points (Centurion)
Helios+8 Gun Drones = 193 points
Centurion+ Piranha, FB, TA, 2 Gun Drones = 170 points
Well, there are about 3 threads now that are debating this, I'd like to see how people feel so far. I know I'm the only one actually debating against the Helios, but I think there are others out there who may agree with me so I wanted to do a poll.
Basically, do you think the Helios is worth taking over other loadouts? Specifically would you now use a combination of Gun Drones + Helios = 193 points, or would you prefer the cheaper Fusion Piranha + Centurion combo =170 points
Now a Helios poll in comparison to other XV8 load outs is OK but the second comparison is just a thinly disguised attempt to justify your hostile opposition to drone squads and Helios in the other thread and your hoping to gain some support to say 'hah told you so', however it does not matter I will still stand by my assertion that Centurion is a waste of time.
Also your not actually listing other loadouts, you have simply listed the centurion, so should the question not be which do you prefer Helios or Centurion?.
My vote would be Helios over Centurion, however I would also take a Helios/drone squad over a Piranha and Centurion. However I always take Helios and a drone squad so I guess I go for choice 3.
EDIT: The title of the thread is also a blatant attempt to swing the result of the poll, would not something like Helios VS Centurion been a bit more productive and fair, maybe you should change the title to one thats a little less obviously reflective of your opinion and desire for the result.
None of the above.
I don't like any of the options - I hate Helios 'Suits' offensive nature and I think Centurion 'Suits have no place in a Tau army.
I would rather have the (cheapest of all):
Shas'el with MP; PR; TA; HW MT
Piranha with FB; TA
Grand total of 167.
Seriously, it's all a matter of playstyle. Some players will be able to use a Helios 'Suit and Gun Drones (riki) better than others, who can use Centurions and Piranhas better than others (israfel).
I don't see the need for any more petty arguments about it. Thanks.
Helios all the way from those options.
I know several Tau players in my local area that flirted with the centurion loadout but quickly returned to the helios fold. The centurion just doesn't cut the mustard.
Lemme break that down into something more obvious.
Your combination contains.
My force contains
It seems like a valid comparison to me. I mean, these two setups hunt the same things as they have nearly the same weapons. My argument for my setup lies around a few key points.
*More Units -My setup has 3 units instead of two. It's like a free target lock with the added benefits of target saturation.
*Longer range. - Every one of my units has added range to their weapons. The Fusion gun now gets an extra 6". It comes in handy when you need to rush that gap and exploit a weakness. By extension, the drones get an added 12" to their gun range(30"total). The Centurion also now funtions well at 18" range, making it more survivable without having to rely on the protection of another unit, and allowing it to engage units sooner.
*More anti MEQ/TEQ firepower - My setup has both the FB and PR like yours, but my CIB throws plenty of variable AP1 death, killing more heavy infantry(MEQ/TEQ) than the 6 drones. Whats more, the CIB on a BS5 commander will kill more GEQ than those 6 drones. The tradeoff is that my fusion blaster is only BS4 instead of 5 like yours Riki.
*More Tactical Flexiblity - My setup has the option for a skimmer wall, open topped drone assaults with VP worthless drones, and last turn objective grabbing boost moves. Can your setup do any of that? Nope. Like your setup, my group can pin enemy units(not as effectively), hunt armor(more effectively IMO), and decimate deepstriking terminators(much more effectively). It can do almost eveything the other setup can, and it does most of those things better. Also, see the first point about More Units.
*Cheaper - I am all about some min/maxing over here. If I can save 23 points, thats halfway to a super cheap flamer equipped deathrain. Cheap effective units? Sign me up!
You're kidding you vote for the Helios?!?!
I like FK's too, my second commander is always an 'El FK with TA. The reason I don't use two of em is because the Centurion just helps hold down my end of the table much better when enemy units do invariably find their way downfield. No matter how it gets there or what it is, if it's infantry this suit really can apply pressure. His IC status usually means he'll survive that wave of drop pod termies, which is critical for him to strike back. but yeah Fireknives make excellent commander fits.
Experience is one thing.
tactical analysis is another.
Tactical analysis can be done by a mathematician. But experience comes from playing the game. No offence champ, but if you are going to try and be hostile to everyone who disagree's with you in the hope that they will quietly leave the discussion then your barking up the wrong tree here.
This is a "poll" you are asking for people "opinions".
My "opinion" from my "experience" at playing the game leads me to prefer the Helios pattern over the centurion. I don't need to resort to mathhammer to justify my opinion.
By the way don't be even tempted to call me a liar. English may not be my first language but I can certainly read between the lines at understand what "heresay" means!
I've dabbled with using a centurion before as well, and I didn't really like it myself. The CIB begs to be used against low saves/low toughness troops while the plasma rifle is better for higher toughness/better save enemies. To much of a mixed role for me, though gunblade is a different story.
I voted for choice three, the fusion blaster and the plasma rifle may not be the worlds greatest setup for a suit but its weapons can hunt armour or heavy infantry to good effect while the drones can go after light infantry or be a harrassment.
Also israfel420, use the edit button instead of double posting. Tis in the rules to do so after all, last I checked anyway.
Last edited by darkreever; July 17th, 2007 at 06:51.
Take my love, take my land, take me to where I cannot stand; I don't care I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.
"The difference between gods and daemons largely depends upon where one is standing at the time."- Lorgar
Member of the Fluff Masters Clan
@riki and israfel - cut it out, or you'll both get warnings. Don't even respond to this message, just cut it out.
@israfel - Cut it out in general. Don't get offensive everytime someone disagrees with what you believe.
@Skarsgard - Don't even bother responding to posts like the above, all it does is clutter the thread.
Do I make myself clear, everyone? Okay, thanks.