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All things being equal, which version do members feel is the most cost-effective variant?
My most commonly chosen Army composition is what would best be described as a vehicle-heavy hybrid force. I've yet to use Warfish, since I'm not sure that the extra points are worth it, so I'd welcome and value other players views, and I'd prefer actual experience over a mathematical comparison, please.
Well, I've found that SMS spam is just dandy, if you have 5+/- vehicles with SMS.
I'll run 2 warfish if (and only if) I have at least 3 hammheads with SMS. This provides the necessary volume of shots (still moving up to 12" and firing all over the board is just nasty when you are packing Tau heat) to take miscellaneous units out when you need to and your crisis are otherwise occupied. Plus, after a FOF, a warfish can get out of dodge and still fire 7 shots up to 18" taking out that last casuality or something.
If you have less than 5 SMS, then I've found it just doesn't work as well. Sure, it can make your pretty effective Firewarrior squad a bit more deadly, but so can more firewarriors.
Just my two cents.
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Thane - since 90% of my Tau remains in boxes behind the setee, much to the chargrin of she who thinks she should be obeyed, (get these toys out my living room) I cant really comment from using them, hecne wont vote on your poll to keep it as you requested, but from both an aspitrational viewpoint (what I will have) and a getting attacked by them view point warfish
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I really have to say, that it depends.
I prefer to use the warfish variant, but those extra points really add up. If you have two warfish compared to just a DF with decoys, that is 70 points you can spend elsewhere. Now most crisis suits cost around 70 points......so you really have to make the judgement call.
Personally I think they are worthwhile, but if the points get tight at the end of army list composition, they are one of the first things to get dropped.
I don't care what you say. I found a lightsaber in my garage and that makes me a Jedi
i will vote for warfish. i however agree 100% with aussiedave on this. this is an upgrade for lists that have the points to spare. this upgrade effectivly makes your FoF squad shoot 31 times instead of 29 times i try to use a rule of thumb "for every 10 points i spend i on a unit i need to get 1 "shot" out of it".
so the extra points do make sence for me to buy the SMS, but at the same time i dont think the extra 2 shots you get from the SMS over the drones is going to be the deciding factor in ANY game you will ever play.
" i once attempted to help an inquisitor who had stumbled over a cliff, but i couldn't help thinking no good was going to come of him yelling DIE HERITIC!!!"
I like the Warfish, but I think it is a bit costly to be taken with Fire Warriors, the thing is if your going to spend 120pts on what is essentially a tank, then it needs to be used as a tank.
I have advised heir use with FW before but I have been re-thinking a bit lately.
The fire warriors need their transport to stay close and while the extra firepower is nice it is often needed elsewhere, the FW are pretty well armed anyway especially when in rapid fire range and often the Warfish's extra shots could be better used elsewhere on the field, this is the problem as I see it with Warfish for FW's, the Warfish is neither a tank nor a transport, its a bit of both.
The Warfish NEEDS to stay near the FW and this can quite seriously hamper its usefulness.
By far the better option is to upgrade a pathfinders unit to a warfish, drop of the Pathfinders (or even deploy them using their scout move) and then send the Warfish of to be used as a dedicated offensive vehicle, this makes so much more sense than using the WF with FW.
I see this as a much better use of the PF DF than what it usually does (sit around).
The other thing is that the 30 pts adds up quickly if your taking 2 or 3 60 to 90 pts is a lot of points to fleece from other parts of the Tau list, when often the Warfish used by FW will just be sat doing nothing offensively.
So really the poll is unanswerable becasue the DF is cost effective for FW and the Warfish is cost effective for the Pathfinders because it makes a pretty much superfluous vehicle very useful and not just a wast of 80+ pts.
So sorry I politely decline to participate in your vote.
I'm more or less of the same opinion as Riki here. Warfish has its place, particularly in games of CoD where LOS is compromised and cover is plentiful. Being able to defeat both of these elements is useful and therefore SMS is preferable to GDs.
However, I too have been re-thinking the DF/WF set-up for normal games. As I tend to use Fish of Fury tactics I am increasingly finding that the dismountable Gun Drones provide an advantage, as they can extend the area denial (which is already large due to the DF's size) to one side of the DF thus giving more protection to the FWs to the rear. Also, they can form nuisance units, which can be surprisingly good at times! Even with only 2 models, they form a non-scoring unit with nasty guns, reasonable Initiative and a Tau Jetpack move in the assault phase anyway. I have begun to prefer GDs over SMS for these reasons.
Plus of course the cost savings.
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ninjabackhand: point and click, again, really? even after i give you an military term "shock tactic" you still call it point and click.
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Pardon my ignorance, but could someone please explain to me what the difference between a devilfish and a warfish is?
I'm curious and don't know.
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A Warfish is a variant of the Devilfish that is tooled up to be more like a medium tank than an APC. Basically you give a Devilfish a Smart Missile System, a Multi Tracker, a Targetting array and some Decoy Launchers. This gives the Warfish quite a devastating punch, but is fairly costly.
I do like the warfish setup, and think it works well with the FOF tactics. However, the point Riki brought up is quite valid, which can lead to wasting those valuable points. It depends on the points value of the games being played really: In a small game I won't take a warfish, but as the points level starts going up I try and include a few, as they can add that extra bit of punch to FWs they carry.
There is definitely something to be said about the annoyance factor of a pair of drones however, and for that reason alone I would always try to include some bog-standard Devilfish in the army regardless of the level of the battle being played.